Just to clarify things up..... Floyd still holds the lineal title at 147.

[starjammer]

Calzaghe never held the Lineal crown at Light Heavy. Dont get confused with being the Lineal champ and being the ring no1 champ. Calzaghe beat the no1 ring Light Heavy in Hopkins, but Bhop wernt the Lineal champ.


If Lewis came back before Wlad's last fight he still would have been recognised as the Lineal champ at the weight.


And why does Floyd have to beat Mosley to be recognised as the lineal champ when Mosley never was a lineal champ at 147? Mosley beat Margarito, and Margarito was not the lineal champ.


I seriously think you do not understand what a Lineal champ is.

But the lineal champ was distorted with Floyd retirement. No-one else has a greater claim than Mosley (yes you can debate that another fight between a few of the top WW's will settle it). But in your view it will just remain distorted if Floyd never un-retired...?

Forever...?

[shade darkar]

Undisputed is what Roy was, he held all the belts. Lineal is usually the guy who unifies, like Floyd who beat Baldi after he beat Zab after he beat Spinks who was the lineal chump. If you retire for other than medical reasons, yes, you lose your claim to be lineal champion,because you chose to retire. You don't think that's the first argument that would've come out Floyd's mouth? stop this bs...

so is it right that hatton was the undisputed and lineal champ at 140? he was IBF champ, and then beat the WBA champ? CONFUSED.COM!

[Ishy Aytan]

im not about just ww. boxing in general, i didnt ask who is the lineal champ, i asked you to tell me clearly the difference between a lineal champ and an undisputed champ.

A lineal champions title traces back to the best fighters in the weight catorgory in previous years.

Ie, Lewis was the lineal champ by beating Hollyfield. Hollyfield beat Douglas, Douglas beat Tyson, Tyson beat Spinks, Spinks beat Holmes, Holmes beat Ali.


An undisputed champ is universially recognised as the best fighter in that weight. Ie the fight between Hopkins and Trinidad was for the undisputed title. Hopkins beat a long lasting stand of middleweight fighters. Trinidad beat Joppy who was recognised as the no2 middleweight. Hence a fight between Hopkins and Trinidad was recognised for the Undisputed title as these were the two best Middlweights at the time.

[Del Coqui]

so is it right that hatton was the undisputed and lineal champ at 140? he was IBF champ, and then beat the WBA champ? CONFUSED.COM!

Hatton never held all the belts at 140, therefore he never was undisputed.

[Del Coqui]

so is it right that hatton was the undisputed and lineal champ at 140? he was IBF champ, and then beat the WBA champ? CONFUSED.COM!

Sorry, I didn't see the second part of your question. Hatton held the IBO and WBA titles I believe and was recognized lineal champ at the weight class. Lineal champ is something your recognized, not like an undisputed where you get it by beating all other champs/belt holders.

[shade darkar]

Hatton never held all the belts at 140, therefore he never was undisputed.

oh right. so why in the fight hatton had against, castillo, buffer introduced hatton as the former undisputed light welterweight champion of the wrorld!

[hookoutofhell]

Completley disagree with you. Lets say if Calzaghe comes back at LHW in two years and people are claiming him to be the lineal champ when Dawson and Cloud lets say have cleaned up all the titles...will you disregard all theyve done in his absence and call Calzaghe the lineal champ?

No I don't reckon you would.

Same with Lennox Lewis, why would he be a lineal champ NOW? Wladimir has staked his claim. Vitali has staked a claim for a piece of it.

Lennox wouldn't deserve it. He would have to BEAT the new guys.

So in conclusion, Floyd would have to beat MOSLEY to get that lineal championship....not the other way around as you propose.

i agree with you starjammer it just seems like common sense doesn't it

if you retire and during the period of your retirement other fighters establish themselves as the top dog in the division that doesn't give you the right to come back and say that you are still the main man in the division does it?

lennox is a perfect example he was the lineal champ at HW but if he was to come back tomorrow does he instantly become the lineal champ again? if so its bull and is another example of boxing politics gone crazy.

calzaghe at SMW is another example. lets say hypothetically that kess dominates the tourney and beats all the fighters, lets say he then unifies and defeats bute and greene. he will have defeated every other top 10 SMW, unified the titles and becomes the lineal champ, now if 2012 calzaghe decides he wants to make a SMW comeback does that make him the lineal champ? if it does ask yourself does that make sense?

if lineal champs do come back then they should be given some credit and a solid ranking but they don't deserve to be given the credit of being the top dog in the division.

[starjammer]

i agree with you starjammer it just seems like common sense doesn't it

if you retire and during the period of your retirement other fighters establish themselves as the top dog in the division that doesn't give you the right to come back and say that you are still the main man in the division does it?

lennox is a perfect example he was the lineal champ at HW but if he was to come back tomorrow does he instantly become the lineal champ again? if so its bull and is another example of boxing politics gone crazy.

calzaghe at SMW is another example. lets say hypothetically that kess dominates the tourney and beats all the fighters, lets say he then unifies and defeats bute and greene. he will have defeated every other top 10 SMW, unified the titles and becomes the lineal champ, now if 2012 calzaghe decides he wants to make a SMW comeback does that make him the lineal champ? if it does ask yourself does that make sense?

if lineal champs do come back then they should be given some credit and a solid ranking but they don't deserve to be given the credit of being the top dog in the division.

Exactly! You've articulated it far better than I ever could but that's my point yeah

[Del Coqui]

oh right. so why in the fight hatton had against, castillo, buffer introduced hatton as the former undisputed light welterweight champion of the wrorld!

You tell me, if there were other champs out there, was he undisputed?

[Shattered Jaw]

Floyd isn't the lineal champ of anything anymore. If he wants to get the the ring with Clottey, Cotto, Mosely or Williams to prove he can actaully beat a top Welterweight then let hom - I very much doubt he will though, only these featherweights moving up interests him.

I bet Floyd coudln't believe his luck - top featherweights moving up in weight who are regarded as the P4P 1 and 2.

LET THE CHERRY PICKING BEGIN!