Who could have beaten Mosley at LW?

[Silencers]

It is impossible to accurately analyze film fom that era because of the missing frames. It simply doesn't allow you to see everything and gives you a false perception of what you are seeing. The Manchine proved this when he posted a video of Vitaly Klitchsko with that era type of film. It looked nothing like him at all. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that fighters from that era didn't fight exactly like what they see? This is why professional opinions such as Arcels are so important. He actually saw him fight and can accurately compare him.

Exactly, I have nothing to add to this, good post.

[KostyaTszyu44]

As I said, I haven't seen too much of him so I'm not too sure but by all accounts and from what I've seen he was one of the greatest of all time, I think he should at least be given a chance at beating Mosley.

ok well fair enough

but from what ive seen in that video mosley would have had an easy time with him, but i suppose that footage may not tell us everythign we need to know about leonard

[realheavyhands]

Duran and Whitaker, I don't think anyone else.

duran would have the best chance.. but i doubt it..

[lefthook2daliva]

Recently, that's a tough question. There seems to be a consensus that 135 was PBF's best weight, so can't rule him out. Who else?....Dunno'...Not Corrales (RIP). Not Castillo. Not Popo. Not Casa (but I bet it would've been a great fight) Probably Duran if anybody...

[JAB5239]

I never said he wasn't smart. He is clearly a very clever fighter, but you can only do so much with the tools he had at his disposal.

I tend to disregard the opinions of "'experts" I don't need people to tell me how a fighter fought or how well he fought or how smart he was. I am perfectly capable of watching said fighter fight and determine how good they are for myself. Also, as Angelo Dundee once said. "Trainers are the biggest bums in the world" "Everything my guy does is always great, and everything the other guys does is nothing."

Yeah, but Arcel never trained Leonard. He did train Duran, Holmes, Zale, Ezzard Charles, Jimmy Braddock and Barney Ross though, so I would have to say that his opinion is more than qualified.

[poeticlsykuac]

[/B]

Yeah, but Arcel never trained Leonard. He did train Duran, Holmes, Zale, Ezzard Charles, Jimmy Braddock and Barney Ross though, so I would have to say that his opinion is more than qualified.

HAHA Burn!

From what I seen in that video, he could beat anyone in the 135 pound class from any era. That was a fighter that tested his chin. He showed great adjustment. A great jab, great defense, good power, and great ring intelligence.

Sloppy jab changes with a better video. Based on that guys head being pushed back it wasn't sloppy. That said you can't judge a fighter on a 10 minute highlight video. Especially if it is from one fight. While you can read tendencies the intelligent fighters seem to change their style against fighters. Imagine if a guy like that was able to watch film and study a fighter? Sheez he'd be something special.

[!! Shawn]

Exactly, I have nothing to add to this, good post.

Bad post. Its easy to analyze film of that era. Its not as bad as people like to make it seem. The fighters do not look worse than they really are, they were just that sloppy.

Film has always recorded the same damn thing, exactly what it sees through the lens; no less, no more.

In fact, I would say that some of these old films are even more watchable than some of the overly compressed modern fights available for download.

I would honestly like you to point out one deficiency in the footage I provided that would lead you to inaccurately judge either fighter.



Go on... One thing wrong with the film quality that would lead you to believe you are missing something.

[!! Shawn]

[/B]

Yeah, but Arcel never trained Leonard. He did train Duran, Holmes, Zale, Ezzard Charles, Jimmy Braddock and Barney Ross though, so I would have to say that his opinion is more than qualified.

Yes he did... You didn't know Ray Arcel worked with Benny Leonard? Wow, and you are telling me to do more research?

http://www.ibhof.com/arcel.htm

"Arcel also worked with Barney Ross, and managed and trained his early idol, Benny Leonard..."

The man is clearly unbiased talking about his boxing idol and a guy he trained...

[TheGreatA]

Mosley beat no top opposition at that weight but we've come to know how great he was at higher weights.

Here are some lightweights that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread:


Barney Ross




Henry Armstrong


Ike Williams vs Beau Jack




Jimmy Carter


Carlos Ortiz


Laguna vs Ortiz

[!! Shawn]

HAHA Burn!

From what I seen in that video, he could beat anyone in the 135 pound class from any era. That was a fighter that tested his chin. He showed great adjustment. A great jab, great defense, good power, and great ring intelligence.

Sloppy jab changes with a better video. Based on that guys head being pushed back it wasn't sloppy. That said you can't judge a fighter on a 10 minute highlight video. Especially if it is from one fight. While you can read tendencies the intelligent fighters seem to change their style against fighters. Imagine if a guy like that was able to watch film and study a fighter? Sheez he'd be something special.

I never said sloppy jab, I said lazy jab meaning he brings it back low and slow. That doesn't change with video. The footage is actually pretty damn good quality.

I never said anything about the power of his jab, it seems to be a pretty stiff jab, but its lazy and Mosley would counter over it every time.