Who could have beaten Mosley at LW?

[!! Shawn]

You're dismissing an all time great based on grainy film footage where every third frame or so is missing to distort the action. Fact is, Leonard fought the best comp of any lightweight in history. Kind of hard to just dismiss him based on 10 minutes of footage, no?

You can analyze a fighters style with 1 min of footage. Thats all you need. I never said he is not a great fighter, but he was great for his time, not ours. His technique is too sloppy, he makes too many mistakes. He has no chance of ever coming close to beating Mosley.

Maybe if he was raised today with modern training and modern boxing instruction he would do well, but we cannot speculate one what would happen if he was trained in the modern style of boxing, all we can do is compare how he fought to how he would do against a modern fighter.

Mosley would slaughter him. He doesn't slip punches well, he keeps his hands low, his jab is lazy and he is off balance with it. No chance at all.

[bMak]

Serious question, if anyone here is familiar with SSM at LW who do you think could have beaten Mosley at 135? Seriously though at 135 he was 31-0 with 29 KOs. He was faster, more natural, fluid, and aggressive. SSM was also the best combo puncher in the biz at that point.

I want to know who you think would beat him at 135?

[IMG]http://i233.***********.com/albums/ee65/bestrict/100_1083.jpg[/IMG]

[Silencers]

I definitely disagree with needing only 1 minute of footage to study a fighter, I find it necessary to have at least 1 full fight of a fighter to be able to accurately study him.

[poeticlsykuac]

It is true and the problem with Mosley is that he lacked defining fights at 135. He was probably not even the most qualified champion at the weight then, it might have been Stevie Johnston but that is another fight that never happened.

Actually he was considered the champion, he beat undefeated reigning Philip Holiday(wit 8 defenses). Stevie didn't really beat the true champ. Holiday was a tough champion.

I do agree that he lacked defining fights. Had some good fighters on his resume but he just was head and shoulders everyone. All the talent was in the division just south at jr. lightweight.

[JAB5239]

You can analyze a fighters style with 1 min of footage. Thats all you need. I never said he is not a great fighter, but he was great for his time, not ours. His technique is too sloppy, he makes too many mistakes. He has no chance of ever coming close to beating Mosley.

So you're able to analyze a fighter thru 1 minute of grainy footage that cannot allow you to see all the itnracacies or details because of the era it was filmed in? Lol, ok.

Maybe if he was raised today with modern training and modern boxing instruction he would do well, but we cannot speculate one what would happen if he was trained in the modern style of boxing, all we can do is compare how he fought to how he would do against a modern fighter.

I fail to see how this is possible going by how little information you have used to come to your conclussion.

Mosley would slaughter him. He doesn't slip punches well, he keeps his hands low, his jab is lazy and he is off balance with it. No chance at all.

You seem like a decent poster Shawn, but you really need to do more research about Leonard before talking like this. You are very misinformed on this topic.

[!! Shawn]

I definitely disagree with needing only 1 minute of footage to study a fighter, I find it necessary to have at least 1 full fight of a fighter to be able to accurately study him.

1 min or less. You get to see their personality their tells, their ticks, their mistakes.

Benny Leonard had great footwork. His right hand was bad and he was constantly off balance with it. His jab was lazy and he left it out much to long exactly like Margarito did. Hes a tough son of a *****, and he has great situational awareness.

He has some great assets, enough to do amazing things during his time against fighters that had flaws similar to his own, but against a technically developed modern fighter, he doesn't stand a chance.

The fight between them would definitely not be too exciting, Shane wouldn't be able to get off many combinations because of Benny's footwork, but Benny would be unable to attack Mosley without getting the worse of an exchange.

Benny is a one punch at a time guy. He would bounce in and out against Mosley trying to find a spot for his right hand. He throws that right hand off balance though so Shane has no problems blocking and countering with a 3 punch combination.

After a while Benny starts trying to press the action a little more and trying to work his way in behind his lazy jab, but he eats right hand left hooks over the top all night long.

The end result is either Mosley by UD if Benny decides to be less aggressive, or Mosley by KO if Benny tries to press the action.

[Silencers]

1 min or less. You get to see their personality their tells, their ticks, their mistakes.

Benny Leonard had great footwork. His right hand was bad and he was constantly off balance with it. His jab was lazy and he left it out much to long exactly like Margarito did. Hes a tough son of a *****, and he has great situational awareness.

He has some great assets, enough to do amazing things during his time against fighters that had flaws similar to his own, but against a technically developed modern fighter, he doesn't stand a chance.

The fight between them would definitely not be too exciting, Shane wouldn't be able to get off many combinations because of Benny's footwork, but Benny would be unable to attack Mosley without getting the worse of an exchange.

Benny is a one punch at a time guy. He would bounce in and out against Mosley trying to find a spot for his right hand. He throws that right hand off balance though so Shane has no problems blocking and countering with a 3 punch combination.

After a while Benny starts trying to press the action a little more and trying to work his way in behind his lazy jab, but he eats right hand left hooks over the top all night long.

The end result is either Mosley by UD if Benny decides to be less aggressive, or Mosley by KO if Benny tries to press the action.

You really can't because you have to see if they do it again and again, 1 minute of footage doesn't tell you much of anything, it takes at least a full fight to see what do right and what they do wrong on a consistent basis for me.

[!! Shawn]

You seem like a decent poster Shawn, but you really need to do more research about Leonard before talking like this. You are very misinformed on this topic.

The only information you need to predict the outcome of a fight is the information provided to you by your eyes. The footage is not grainy enough that you cannot tell what is going on, you can see quite clearly every feint and move they make.

They are very good and crafty for their time, but they are technically flawed fighters. Most of their flaws originate from their poor stance. Its not their fault, weight on your back leg was thought to be best back then, but we know better today. It leads to the horrible lunging right hands Leonard throws, it leaves you in poor position to throw in combinations, it leaves you unable to throw any sort of meaningful left hooks.

Its all understandable, and for their time, it didn't really matter because everyone had the same flaws, but today we know better than that. Shane Mosley would get destroyed by Shane Mosley if Shane Mosley fought out of that stance. Its just not technically sound, and even Jesus wouldn't stand a chance of beating a fighter like Mosley fighting out of it.

[JAB5239]

1 min or less. You get to see their personality their tells, their ticks, their mistakes.

Benny Leonard had great footwork. His right hand was bad and he was constantly off balance with it. His jab was lazy and he left it out much to long exactly like Margarito did. Hes a tough son of a *****, and he has great situational awareness.

He has some great assets, enough to do amazing things during his time against fighters that had flaws similar to his own, but against a technically developed modern fighter, he doesn't stand a chance.

The fight between them would definitely not be too exciting, Shane wouldn't be able to get off many combinations because of Benny's footwork, but Benny would be unable to attack Mosley without getting the worse of an exchange.

Benny is a one punch at a time guy. He would bounce in and out against Mosley trying to find a spot for his right hand. He throws that right hand off balance though so Shane has no problems blocking and countering with a 3 punch combination.

After a while Benny starts trying to press the action a little more and trying to work his way in behind his lazy jab, but he eats right hand left hooks over the top all night long.

The end result is either Mosley by UD if Benny decides to be less aggressive, or Mosley by KO if Benny tries to press the action.

Ray Arcel, one of the greatest trainers of all time, concurs on Leonard’s ability to out-think his opponent’s, Peter Heller's In The Corner, “Boxing is brains over brawn. I don’t care how much ability you got, if you can’t think your just another bum in the park. People ask me who’s the greatest boxer I ever saw pound for pound. I hesitate to say, either Benny Leonard or Ray Robinson. But Leonard’s mental energy surpassed anyone else’s.”

I gotta say with all due respect, I think Ray Arcels opinion holds more water that yours. This is from a man who actually saw him fight live. Many times.

[robjr]

duran best chance if anyone.