Duran is not a top ten ATG

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read very carefully I said did hoya, hearns, or leoanrd win 5 titles in 5 weight classes by the age of 30 and remain undefeated. here let me highlight the by the age of 30 and remain undefeated part for you




you can say what you want about ruiz but he was a better champion then barkley and moore combined.

once again trying to slam a middleweight for going up to heavy and winning a title is ******. but since duran didn't do that it makes the accmplsihemnt medicore in your opinion..

and I asked you does duran going 1-5 against his peers and quitting in the biggest match of his career worthy of a top 5 ranking, is it even worthy of a top ten ranking. because oscar can say the same thing I fought the best, well the question must be asked did duran beat the best fighters of his generation consistently like ray leonard, or floyd mayweather.

anyone can get lucky

Wow,,, this makes me think..I am always on DLH for barelyk eaking out controversial wins vs Whitaker, quartey, and losing to Trinidad,,,but duran got beat......... and quit and stopped all by the age of 34. Great points Brandish....


Forget about these peopel ever agreeing with you. when they knock Jones for doiing what he did, and but hype up a fighter `1-5 who had loses to dejesus, laing, quit, got stopped all before the age of 34...When these same people say hey Duran deserved the credit for winning the 1st fight with leoanrd, and disregard the 2nd and 3rd fights, but hmmm in the trilogy with Dejesus, they say disregard the 1st fight, and give credit to Duran for winning the 2nd and 3rd fights..

I am completley lost on duran fans logic. No actually I am not.. lets see

here is a Duran fan

• Disregard the fact that his best wins at lightweight were vs good fighters at best. Not one of those socalled "great fighters are on any respected historian's (that you all swear by) top ppound per pound list. yet and still you rant and rave that Duran reign at lightweigth is some great feat, and that it should be held in higher esteem than Hopkins, Holmes, marciano's, Monzon reign, and that it places him above leoanrd who BEAT 4 top all time fighters that are all on 99.9% of historians (that you use as sources to document Duran's greatness) top pound per pound list...Hmmm go figure.
• Disregard the fact that fighters like roy, and mayweather where undefeated til either they retired or turned 34, and no you cant say Duran only lost to fighters that where better than what roy or mayweather fought, he also losto laing, and Dejesus on top of going 1-5 vs the elite fighters of his era.
• Disregard the fact that Roy Jones faced and beat more champions, who many times went on to bcome a champion after they fought roy, than Duran had champion ship fights.
• Disregard the fact that Roy had more defenses than duran, and that roy dominated 3 divisions winning and defending titles.
• Disregard that Roy beat not one but two top fighters all time, vs Duran beating one, and the one he beat actually had a 2-1 record against him
• Disregard that many of roys accomplishment happend as he moved up in weight and as he became 29 or older, vs duran who move up and got trashed, and disregard the fact that roy movd up and beat a lefit heavywieght title holder. Not a great one, but one who had the title, and beat some decent heavyweights, and unlike duran who was at welter for 2 years..at jr middle and at middle for some period of time, Roy jumped up to heavyweight put on 20 pounds of muscle for this one fight, and fought and beat a fighter at heavy and still on top that the fighter had him outweighed by 20-30 pounds. Did duran do anything close to this.
• Disregard roy was in a fight where he was physically not 100% due to losing weight and muscle at least 18 pounds in a short amount of time, but he did not quit, Duran quit becasue he was frusterated he was gettig his ass kicked.
• Disregard the fact that Leonard had 5 titles and beat the men that beat duran, vs Duran having 4 titles and losing to the men that Ray beat.
• Only give Duran the "he moved up in weight" exepmtion from having his fights at heavier weights considered. Disregard that mostly everyone else moved up in weight too.

Yep pretty much I think I understand the Duran fan logic.

[TheGreatA]

Considering Duran beat the reigning future FW champ at FW and then skipped the weak JWW division to go straight to Leonard and beat him for the WW title, it's pretty easy to see that he could have very easily been a six weight champion.

It's also so easy to get a title these days that it's laughable to say it's an equal accomplishment compared to guys who were doing the same thing thirty years ago.

Duran was the only man to stop FW champion Ernesto Marcel.

Duran dominated and knocked out Hiroshi Kobayashi who had been the unified super featherweight champion.

Duran defeated Buchanan, DeJesus, Ishimatsu, all LW champions along with many other top ranked LW challengers.

Duran defeated Saoul Mamby who went on to become a good light welterweight champion.

Duran defeated Ray Leonard, Pipino Cuevas and Carlos Palomino who were all WW champions.

Duran defeated Davey Moore who was a light middleweight champion.

Duran defeated Barkley and Castro who were middleweight champions
(Barkley went on to win a LHW title, Castro went on to become a top ranked cruiserweight).

Duran defeated Juan Ferreyra who was a top ranked super middleweight contender and gave trouble to super middleweight champions such as Nigel Benn and Mauro Galvano.

Yet all these people have a hard time realizing why Duran is ranked so highly by many...

From featherweight to light heavyweight, from age 18 to age 50... he was fighting at a high level. That's pretty amazing when you think about it.

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Considering Duran beat the reigning future FW champ at FW and then skipped the weak JWW division to go straight to Leonard and beat him for the WW title, it's pretty easy to see that he could have very easily been a six weight champion.

It's also so easy to get a title these days that it's laughable to say it's an equal accomplishment compared to guys who were doing the same thing thirty years ago.

Benny this post is the dumbest and most factually wrong post ever.... Duran did not go straight to leoanrd. Check yoiur facts. He had like 5 fights at welter including vs palimino, was at the weight division for 2 years, before fighting Leoanrd.

Why not research why he didt fight at 140. there was a man there by the name of Aaron pryor that duran people where terrified of. Duran sent his staff to meet with pryor people and put to rest, behind the scenes any talk of a fight between the two. Source = Hands of Stone, durans own book about the truths that where never told. Duran set a lot of things straight in this book.

Outside of barely outpointing Ray in the first of 3 fights that he lost 2 of them, easily and quit in one of them, (Facts) what else great did Duran do, that say roy Jones did not do. Hmmm? What else?

[Vasyl’s dad]

Duran was the only man to stop FW champion Ernesto Marcel.

Duran dominated and knocked out Hiroshi Kobayashi who had been the unified super featherweight champion.

Duran defeated Buchanan, DeJesus, Ishimatsu, all LW champions along with many other top ranked LW challengers.

Duran defeated Saoul Mamby who went on to become a good light welterweight champion.

Duran defeated Ray Leonard, Pipino Cuevas and Carlos Palomino who were all WW champions.

Duran defeated Davey Moore who was a light middleweight champion.

Duran defeated Barkley and Castro who were middleweight champions
(Barkley went on to win a LHW title, Castro went on to become a top ranked cruiserweight).

Duran defeated Juan Ferreyra who was a top ranked super middleweight contender and gave trouble to super middleweight champions such as Nigel Benn and Mauro Galvano.

Yet all these people have a hard time realizing why Duran is ranked so highly by many...

From featherweight to light heavyweight, from age 18 to age 50... he was fighting at a high level. That's pretty amazing when you think about it.

No its not, anyone can do it, plus, he had 16 losses.

Floyd Mayweather is undefeated and dominated 5 weight classes, and he has bajillionmazillion dollars and Roberto "Hands of Pattycake" Duran doesn't.

So there.

[Brandish]

Barkley's wins over Thomas Hearns are better than what Ruiz ever accomplished.

did you forget ruiz defeated holyfield in a trilogy

Moore's wins over Kalule and Benitez are better than what Ruiz ever accomplished.

kalule and benitez were washed up by time moore got to them. hence no mention of davey moore ever making the hof or being an atg

I'm not slamming Roy Jones for going to the heavyweight division for one fight but Lennox Lewis was the recognized champion. Jones had a good win over Ruiz but it was hardly an earth-shattering accomplishment. He was favoured to win the fight, and he won it.

barkely wasn;t the recognized champ at 160 at the time nor was he the best middleweight champ at 160 during that time. we all know that was michael nunn.

Leonard, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez were not fighters of Duran's generation or weight class. Duran had most of his fights in the early/mid 70's as a lightweight while Benitez, Hearns, Hagler and Leonard did most of their work in the late 70's/early 80's.

you fight the fights to win them not lose them, quit making excuses. did you say that when duran beat leonard, what about when he quit was that a special moment too.

Some people at the time were actually calling Duran too old and small before the first Ray Leonard fight.

yeah right he had only lost 1 fight before then and was 29 years old..hardly old by any boxing standard. duran was in his prime but he didn't take of himself outside the ring hence his career suffered, same goes for ray and swet pea who were notorious parties and coke sniffers

[Vasyl’s dad]

did you forget ruiz defeated holyfield in a trilogy



kalule and benitez were washed up by time moore got to them. hence no mention of davey moore ever making the hof or being an atg




barkely wasn;t the recognized champ at 160 at the time nor was he the best middleweight champ at 160 during that time. we all know that was michael nunn.



you fight the fights to win them not lose them, quit making excuses. did you say that when duran beat leonard, what about when he quit was that a special moment too.




yeah right he had only lost 1 fight before then and was 29 years old..hardly old by any boxing standard. duran was in his prime but he didn't take of himself outside the ring hence his career suffered, same goes for ray and swet pea who were notorious parties and coke sniffers

Mayweather ducked the best in his division, get over it.

[TheGreatA]

did you forget ruiz defeated holyfield in a trilogy

The trilogy was officially 1-1-1. Holyfield was washed up by the time and went on to lose to Byrd, Toney and Donald.

kalule and benitez were washed up by time moore got to them. hence no mention of davey moore ever making the hof or being an atg

Kalule was 28 years old, Benitez was 25.

barkely wasn;t the recognized champ at 160 at the time nor was he the best middleweight champ at 160 during that time. we all know that was michael nunn.

Nunn became the middleweight champion against Kalambay a month later after Duran beat Barkley. He was just another title holder who only had beaten Tate and Roldan before the Kalambay fight.

you fight the fights to win them not lose them, quit making excuses. did you say that when duran beat leonard, what about when he quit was that a special moment too.

A lot of fighters fight past their prime. Robinson lost a ton of fights to the next generation of fighters when he was older (33-40 like Duran) yet you rank him in your top 10.

yeah right he had only lost 1 fight before then and was 29 years old..hardly old by any boxing standard. duran was in his prime but he didn't take of himself outside the ring hence his career suffered, same goes for ray and swet pea who were notorious parties and coke sniffers

Yet Kalule and Benitez were washed up by the time they fought Davey Moore.

[wpink1]

Duran was the only man to stop FW champion Ernesto Marcel.

Duran dominated and knocked out Hiroshi Kobayashi who had been the unified super featherweight champion.

Duran defeated Buchanan, DeJesus, Ishimatsu, all LW champions along with many other top ranked LW challengers.

Duran defeated Saoul Mamby who went on to become a good light welterweight champion.

Duran defeated Ray Leonard, Pipino Cuevas and Carlos Palomino who were all WW champions.

Duran defeated Davey Moore who was a light middleweight champion.

Duran defeated Barkley and Castro who were middleweight champions
(Barkley went on to win a LHW title, Castro went on to become a top ranked cruiserweight).

Duran defeated Juan Ferreyra who was a top ranked super middleweight contender and gave trouble to super middleweight champions such as Nigel Benn and Mauro Galvano.

Yet all these people have a hard time realizing why Duran is ranked so highly by many...

From featherweight to light heavyweight, from age 18 to age 50... he was fighting at a high level. That's pretty amazing when you think about it.

machine you are becoming a joke. Brandish and I have repeatedly asked you to justify how he is better than roy and this is what you post, and how is he better than SRL>

Your trying to justify duran by saying names like Marcel, Kyobashi, Ferreyra, etc.....and you disregard who Ray leoanrd beat, and who Jones beat. WTF!

So tell us how great marcel is again. Miguel Riasco, Augustin Cedeno...they both beat him too. So that makes them legends..Problem is no one ever heard of them. Just like no one will ever read marcel on any top 200 list pound per pound all time. In fact is he even in the hall of fame...is any of those avg to decent fighters your on here hyping up in a hall fame...Maybe Buchanon is? You have the gall, to disrespect your own credibility by comparing Duran's wins to leonards?

Then..You on one hand you and others whine about addressing Duran losses at age 40 or above, but your own here listing fighters who where old and shot that Duran beat...Does the name Cuevas mean anything.

Man this is getting old. You all simply disregard all facts and throw up the weakest responses of all time. I have gained a lot of respect for Brandish the way he is whipping you all's assess all around this forum, with facts. and the best you all can come back with is post like this. How about saving this weak stuff. Possibly read it your self before posting it and see how bad and weak it is before posting it.

Brandish,,once again way to factually destory them. Now you have them digging up Ishimatsu a bum of the year candidate.25-10-5... and they have the gall to list bums like this as evidence to rank duran in the top 5-10 all time...This is getting pretty bad...They should quit like there hero.

[wpink1]

The trilogy was officially 1-1-1. Holyfield was washed up by the time and went on to lose to Byrd, Toney and Donald.




Kalule was 28 years old, Benitez was 25.



Nunn became the middleweight champion against Kalambay a month later after Duran beat Barkley. He was just another title holder who only had beaten Tate and Roldan before the Kalambay fight.



A lot of fighters fight past their prime. Robinson lost a ton of fights to the next generation of fighters when he was older (33-40 like Duran) yet you rank him in your top 10.



Yet Kalule and Benitez were washed up by the time they fought Davey Moore.

Weaker post....Robinson up until age 33-34 was like 121-1-1 and had retired...Check your facts... I have always pointed to the 34 age territory as to when fighters start to slide. Now just to show how weak you duran nut huggers are.. Duran fought 72 times before facing leoanrd.... You all go one to say we should not count his fights between ages 28-34. However here you have robinson who fought on to age 34 and had 124 fights. Should we simply count only his fights he had up until age 28..

Ohh for Benny who posted a post that was soo incorredt it was laughable. Duran had 8 fights at welter before fighting leoanrd. Thus you can not say he jumped up to immediately fight Ray. However Ray did jump right up and fight hagler. Benny you need to check your facts.

[Brandish]

Duran was the only man to stop FW champion Ernesto Marcel.

floyd was the only fighter to ko ricky hatton what's your point. marcel is not some legendary champion incase you missed it marcel had a total of 5 championship fights, hardly legendary not even great.

Duran dominated and knocked out Hiroshi Kobayashi who had been the unified super featherweight champion.

kobayashi was finsihed by time duran got to him, you do realize that was kobayahsi's last fight.

Duran defeated Buchanan, DeJesus, Ishimatsu, all LW champions along with many other top ranked LW challengers.

floyd defeated better fighters than that, genaro, corrales, chavez, carlos hernandez, jose luis castillo were all more dominant and fought more championship fights then duran's greatest light weight victories..do a fact check before you post buchanan who was 3-2 in championship fights, and dejesus who was 4-4 in champiosnhip fights as being some great victory.

genaro hernandez had more championship fights then buchanan and dejesus combined

Duran defeated Saoul Mamby who went on to become a good light welterweight champion.

yeah sure he held the title for 1 year and a few months...how special

Duran defeated Ray Leonard, Pipino Cuevas and Carlos Palomino who were all WW champions.

cuevas and palomino where on the slide and nothing but gatekeeprs by the time duran fought them. ray was prime but we saw what happened in the rematch.

Duran defeated Davey Moore who was a light middleweight champion.

you mean 18-5 davey moore who was champ for a year and a half.. you gotta be joking. do you think davey moore was a better fighter than oscar de la hoya at 154

Duran defeated Barkley and Castro who were middleweight champions
(Barkley went on to win a LHW title, Castro went on to become a top ranked cruiserweight).

castro hadn't been a champion in ages and by the time he fought duran he was washd up just like duran. only fitting he went 1-1 with him,

and don't get me started on barkley, you call that an impresive win, please that is nothing to brag about. the arturo gatti of the middleweight division

Duran defeated Juan Ferreyra who was a top ranked super middleweight contender and gave trouble to super middleweight champions such as Nigel Benn and Mauro Galvano.

duran never stepped in the ring with benn, mcclellan or any other top flight middlewegiht in that era so why bring that up...

Yet all these people have a hard time realizing why Duran is ranked so highly by many...

From featherweight to light heavyweight, from age 18 to age 50... he was fighting at a high level. That's pretty amazing when you think about it.

from 18-50 gettng his ass kicked by the best of my generation that's what I remember. marginal victories aganst rookies and hasbeens doesn't warrant top 10 atg statusd.