Duran is not a top ten ATG

[TheGreatA]

Your trying to justify duran by saying names like Marcel, Kyobashi, Ferreyra, etc.....and you disregard who Ray leoanrd beat, and who Jones beat. WTF!

I have not said anything about how Jones and Leonard rank among the all-time greats.

I'm simply asking for you and Brandish to rank Duran like you rank Leonard and Jones, just like you and Brandish are asking for people to rank Leonard and Jones like they rank Duran.

A past prime Duran does not need to beat prime champions, neither do Leonard or Jones (all lost fights badly during their mid-30's).

Now you have them digging up Ishimatsu a bum of the year candidate.25-10-5... and they have the gall to list bums like this as evidence to rank duran in the top 5-10 all time...This is getting pretty bad...They should quit like there hero.

You should know better than to call world class fighters and champions BUMS. You're a good poster but you're making yourself look like another joke on these boards with this.

I'll tell you a little story about Suzuki 'Guts' Ishimatsu. He used to be a 'quitter' who folded when he was being pressured and losing, which is why he lost so many fights early in his career.

He however made a complete turn-around in his attitude, started calling himself "Guts" Ishimatsu and won fights because of his relentless style and no-quit attitude. He went on to beat very good fighters such as Rodolfo Gonzales and Ken Buchanan who were lightweight champions and won the WBC lightweight championship himself.

Fritzie Zivic had 65 losses, yet he is a hall of famer and one of the greatest fighters of all time. Why? Because he fought the best and beat the best.

Having losses on your record shouldn't disqualify you from being recognized as a great fighter.

[Brandish]

Nunn became the middleweight champion against Kalambay a month later after Duran beat Barkley. He was just another title holder who only had beaten Tate and Roldan before the Kalambay fight.

why didn't duran fight him I mean he was the legendary roberto duran
hopkins fought taylor, why couldn't duran face nunn why fight pat lawlor's and other fringe fighters why not fight at the championship level.

what you don't want to admit is that afte the ko loss to hearns duran was finsihed mentally as a championship fighter and lived off his name for the rest of his career. the victoryover barkely was no great feat since 19 others have defeated barkely. beating a michael nunn who was p4p#1 at the time would have been more imporessive and legendary.

[larryx]

wonder how much red k brandish got for this thread..duran isnt top 10 alltime great..who said he was????he is top 30

[Brandish]

A past prime Duran does not need to beat prime champions, neither do Leonard or Jones (all lost fights badly during their mid-30's).

only special fighters can do that. take b-hop for example, 43 beating a 26 prime welter champion that is the stuff of l;egends that is why bhop moves up the list and duran stays where he is in my top 25

[TheGreatA]

Weaker post....Robinson up until age 33-34 was like 121-1-1 and had retired...Check your facts... I have always pointed to the 34 age territory as to when fighters start to slide. Now just to show how weak you duran nut huggers are.. Duran fought 72 times before facing leoanrd.... You all go one to say we should not count his fights between ages 28-34. However here you have robinson who fought on to age 34 and had 124 fights. Should we simply count only his fights he had up until age 28..

Ohh for Benny who posted a post that was soo incorredt it was laughable. Duran had 8 fights at welter before fighting leoanrd. Thus you can not say he jumped up to immediately fight Ray. However Ray did jump right up and fight hagler. Benny you need to check your facts.

Did Benitez not slide at age 24?
Did Armstrong not slide at age 28?
Did Hearns not slide at age 28?
Did Leonard not slide at age 32?
Did Whitaker not slide at age 32?
Did Muhammad Ali not slide at age 33?

Fighters age differently.

[TheGreatA]

why didn't duran fight him I mean he was the legendary roberto duran
hopkins fought taylor, why couldn't duran face nunn why fight pat lawlor's and other fringe fighters why not fight at the championship level.

what you don't want to admit is that afte the ko loss to hearns duran was finsihed mentally as a championship fighter and lived off his name for the rest of his career. the victoryover barkely was no great feat since 19 others have defeated barkely. beating a michael nunn who was p4p#1 at the time would have been more imporessive and legendary.

Barkley had knocked out Thomas Hearns who was a title holder and Michael Olajide who was a top contender.

Nunn, as I said, was facing Sumbu Kalambay to unify the middleweight titles except Kalambay was stripped off his title like Laguna was before facing Buchanan.

Nunn was not close to being number 1 p4p at the time and never was. JC Chavez and Whitaker were always ranked above him.

Should we not recognize Nunn's greatness because he declined before being 30 years old and lost to fighters like Little, Liles and Rocchigiani?

[TheGreatA]

If I was really biased I could do this:


33 year old Roberto Duran against a prime light middleweight.


34 year old Leonard against a prime light middleweight.

[BennyST]

I am not aganst duran I am against people overrating him and saying he is top 10 all-time when his career was not top ten. if he had dominated the 70's and 80's like roy did in the 90's and part of 2000's then I would be the first to proclaim duran's greatness.

what I will not do is rank him ahead of guys he lost to and had dominate careers as well namely,

tommy hearns, ray leonard, amd hagler. I rate duran ahead of benitez and pryor just based on career accomplsihments.

The thing is Brandish, Duran fans have come up and already tried to debate with you why he should be a top ten fighter. The problem is that when you have such completely insane rankings for fighters such as 'what I will not do is rank him ahead of guys he lost to and had dominate careers as well'. If you can't see how ridiculous this is, then no one will ever change your mind about anything, let alone that Duran just might be better than Hearns, Leonard or Hagler.

[TheGreatA]

floyd was the only fighter to ko ricky hatton what's your point. marcel is not some legendary champion incase you missed it marcel had a total of 5 championship fights, hardly legendary not even great.

etc...

You can pick apart that record (or any record for that matter) as you just did but... it's an awful lot of trouble isn't it? You almost had to write a whole book on it.

When you look at his record, his legacy, as a whole and think about it, a single man doing work from featherweight up to super middleweight and light heavyweight divisions against world champions for 5 different decades, if that isn't great then nothing is.

I have never said you should rank him in your top 10, I made that clear in my first post in this thread, but everyone should recognize his greatness.

It's not outrageous to say that Duran was not top 10 ATG, but again, you'll have to come up with something better than what you're coming up with now (basically calling everyone Duran fought a bum) if you want to convince anybody.

[Brandish]

The thing is Brandish, Duran fans have come up and already tried to debate with you why he should be a top ten fighter. The problem is that when you have such completely insane rankings for fighters such as 'what I will not do is rank him ahead of guys he lost to and had dominate careers as well'. If you can't see how ridiculous this is, then no one will ever change your mind about anything, let alone that Duran just might be better than Hearns, Leonard or Hagler.

benny I am still waiting for some facts not some storeis or excuses.

duran had some pretty significant accmoplishments in his career winning four title in four weight classes is no laughing matter, but that alone doesn't get you in the top ten. if that was the case manny pacquiao who has won four titeles would be ther as well. manny has like 6-3 in championship fights and like 5 title defenses now he has a chance to improve on this but that is like top 200-300 stats.

duran to me is a top 25-top30 but he didn';t win enough big fights he reminds me of oscar's career oscar will get props later on for fighting the best but he always came up short against his peers.