Duran is not a top ten ATG

[Williamb45]

Leonard has best Duran x 2 Hagler Hearns by KO and Wilfred Benitez BY KO he should be ranked higher IMO

it has come to a point that by just seing your name, i already know you are talking **** about a non-black fighter and praising black fighters. your racist ass just went on ignore. you are no better than wlad owns, different sides but the same ****. the forums could do without you both.

[Flawless.]

it has come to a point that by just seing your name, i already know you are talking **** about a non-black fighter and praising black fighters. your racist ass just went on ignore. you are no better than wlad owns, different sides but the same ****. the forums could do without you both.

Did I discredit Duran, I just thought he(Leonard) should be ranked higher because of his wins

[BennyST]

Wpink, I saw that you posted a reply to something I wrote in one of The Manchine's posts. I wrote that Duran went straight to WW, as in jumped the weak JWW division (not straight into a fight with Leonard), because the WW champs were where the money was. I did not mean that he jumped straight from his last title defense at lightweight into a fight with Leonard. It's got nothing to do with getting facts straight but you just misinterpreting my post and the way I wrote it. Straight into the WW division, skipping the JWW division. I say to fight Leonard because that's the main fight we have been talking about. Get it? Straight into the welterweight division, skipping the JWW division. Understand? Get your facts straight. I love that line by you. Get your facts straight.

[wpink1]

Wpink, I saw that you posted a reply to something I wrote in one of The Manchine's posts. I wrote that Duran went straight to WW, as in jumped the weak JWW division (not straight into a fight with Leonard), because the WW champs were where the money was. I did not mean that he jumped straight from his last title defense at lightweight into a fight with Leonard. It's got nothing to do with getting facts straight but you just misinterpreting my post and the way I wrote it. Straight into the WW division, skipping the JWW division. I say to fight Leonard because that's the main fight we have been talking about. Get it? Straight into the welterweight division, skipping the JWW division. Understand? Get your facts straight. I love that line by you. Get your facts straight.

Thanks...and thanks for correcting me about the meaning to jumping straight to welter.

Now Benny I am not going to convince you nor you i that either of our choices for whose better Duran or leonard, is better. But can you show the world that at least some duran fans may be able to rationally discuss Duran his accomplishments, the facts that Duran is judges on a different playing field than Leoanrd, Jones, etc.

I showed my abiliy to objectively disuss duran vs Mayweather. I am askinig Duran fans to have one day...Just one day of disucssions where Duran is judge just like everyone else. I am not asking for anyone to swith allegiances.

You will see that leoanrd and Jones both deserve much better recognition than 99.9 percent of Duran fans acknowledge, and also you see that the old school historians that some how Bert sugar ranked both Duran and chaves above leonad, and he had Jones aroud 90. If this is not the most dumbest list ever....Please. He and some other old school historians, simpy rank old fighters higher, and disregard all new fightrs, and their skills.

[Williamb45]

no one is saying duran is not an ATG I have him in my top 30 he won titles in 4 weight classes which is no easy feat, but he is no pernell whitaker and if you match his record in championship fights to whitaker, leonard, hagler, herarns and floyd he doersn't rank as a top 10 atg, some even have him top 5.

What a surprise... all black fighters. 1 more thing don't mention Floyd among the other you mentioned, it makes you sound even ******er than you are (as imposible as it may seem).

[Brandish]

What a surprise... all black fighters. 1 more thing don't mention Floyd among the other you mentioned, it makes you sound even ******er than you are (as imposible as it may seem).

I didn't know there was a qquota system in boxing.. not my fault duran lost black fighters does that hurt you're feelings in some way

now kick rocks out of this thread we are having intelligent boxing convo, so no race baiting is needed.

[JAB5239]

I have been eating your asses up all week on this..please come with something factual or better or it is time to move on.

This comes as news to most since you're making the same lame points that do not hold any water because you refuse to incorporate all the facts. Again, let me ask.....why is it you think you are right, but the majority and historians are wrong? How is it that you were bright enough to reveal these so called truths, yet no one else has before?

Your historians that Rank Duran as a top 5, rank nobody but old timers up there. 70's and before. The are stuck in the past. It is time that we realize best of all time does not mean best of yester year. Fighters like Jones, Mayweather, Leonard, tyson, holyfield, pacman,,,etc.. all are fighters that old time historians simply do not give their just due to , because they credit fighter who fight every week, they go to work thn come home put on some gloves fight some bum, win and this goes down on their record. Historians rant and rave about fighters who are not half as phsycially talented pound per pound as say a leonard or Roy, but becasue they had 100 fights vs 80 nobodies, they are some legend. What is funny is that some of you younger people simply play follow the leader. I have read some on here say, why should we not believe these historians.. that is the dumbest statment of the year. We are debating with you....If we wanted the historians opinion we would goggle it.

You have got not a shred of proof for any of this. To say fighters are bigger, stronger and faster today is a joke. again, where is your proof?

And if you want to get into dumb statements, read your last sentence. Besides forming your own opinions, going by a historians superior knowledge is much more credible than going by boxrec and then forming an opinion.

I got no problem with you Pink, but you have lost this debate no matterv what you think. Not because I say so, but because the overwhelming majority says so. And when you are talking about something as subjective as where a fighter ranks p4p, that is the end all.

[JAB5239]

is ken buchanan, ernesto marcel, esteban de jesus, iran barkely, davey moore, and pipino cuevas ATG's

and what are your standards for being an atg..this should be fun

Are diego Corrales, Angel Manfredy, Arturo Gatti, Hatton and a shop worn Oscar, all time greats? This should be fun!

[BennyST]

if you're saying floyd did not dominate 130 then by that logic duran did not dominate 135 since he never unified the 135 title until his final fight at the weight. let's see floyd undefeated 8 title defenses from 996-2002. duran reigned as champ from 1972 to 1978. and for 6 years duran did not unify 135 why the double standard

how many of duran's title defenses were against former champions play fair or I will get nasty.

how many meanigful fights di duran have at 135

please find where I said duran's 135 run was terrible..duran was a great lightweight champ that alone does not maek him top ten atg. he ruled 135 for 6 years floyd ruled 130 for 6 years.

once agan how many fighters did duran fight at 135 who were champions. how many fithts did he have against weak compeition.

you keep believing that. there are three main titles floyd fought for one of the oldest in the wbc same as duran I fail to see your point.

floyd was regarded as the legitimate 130lb champ when he reigned there was no confusion same with duran both fighters get props for that but their careers did not end there.

This is starting to get really frustrating.

Mayweather first fought for a title at the end of '98, not 96. He then had his last defense of that title at the end of '01, in between fighting a guy at 135 to test the waters but it ended up being one of his toughest fights, which was also against a guy that has never won a title. Three years Brandish, not six.

How many of his defenses or how many of his fights? See, this is where you are already off track here, which is why I posted another post to highlight this exact problem. There are numerous titles you can get today which is why anyone can get a fight with a titleholder or even get a belt themselves. You remember Ray (I think it's Ray or maybe Tim) Austin? The guy who fought a million title defenses and never once came up against a good fighter until Rafael Marquez and then was knocked out? You remember that? Someone that just fought for a title back then would have won a title today or be a multiple title holder in numerous weight divisions. That's the whole problem with boxing today and why you can't compare that type of thing from vastly different era's.

Anyway, so we do we say fights or title defenses? Being a vastly different era in which title fights were not nearly as common and much harder to get, I'll go with fights against title holders. Marcel, Kobayashi, Buchanan, De Jesusx3, Ishimatsu, Mamby. That's the guys that I know held titles. See, that doesn't include the guys who fought for a title that would be title holders today. Guys like Robertson who Duran knocked out in five beat title holders like Sugar Ramos (the HOF'er) and Ruben Navarro or other great fighters that Duran beat who would easily be title holders like Hector Thompson, or Villa, the Viruet brothers, Lou Bizzaro, Takayama, Lampkin, Fernandez, Rojas, etc etc. In my opinion all would have been title holders today quite easily. They were a hell of a lot better fighters than guys like Manfredy.

You have consistently said Duran's lightweight run was no good throughout this thread. These are just a few of the things you posted directly in regards to Duran's lightweight run:
'anybody can rackup a record against a bunch of tomatoo cans'
'I was never impressed with ken sort of like the ricky hatton of his time'
'you can tell he had poor comp at lightweight'
'and to say he is top ten all time based on weak comp at 135 no way'
'when you say cleaned the divison out that was easy since there weren't that many great lightweights for duran to fight. sweet pea fought much tougher lightweights then duran'

The simple fact that you compared Buchanan to Ricky Hatton, of all people, is so absurd and ridiculous. You have not seen Buchanan fight if you think he's anything like Hatton. He's the complete opposite. He was considered one of the slickest fighters of his time. He was defensive, counter oriented fighter and based his fight game off slick, fast movement and pure boxing skills. He had one of the best jabs in the game when he was fighting. He was a very underrated great fighter who beat great fighters himself.

There are now four main titles. WBO, IBF, WBA and WBC. The WBC titlists are no different than any other now. It doesn't make you a better fighter because you win the WBC title. Having the WBC title does not make you the 'man' at the weight either.

[BennyST]

only special fighters can do that. take b-hop for example, 43 beating a 26 prime welter champion that is the stuff of l;egends that is why bhop moves up the list and duran stays where he is in my top 25

I don't get what you're trying to say here. So Hopkins is legendary for beating the MW champion Pavlik (even though Pavlik had to move up to a catchweight well above the MW limit) when he was 43 and Pavlik was 26, even though he had lost twice in his natural, prime weight-class to Taylor and lost to Calzaghe in the fight directly before Pavlik? You call him legendary for doing that and that puts him into the top ten ATG's and yet Duran doing the same thing but actually fighting Barkly in his natural weight class after moving up from FW is called overrated and a pointless win against a nobody?

So for a black guy it's the stuff of legends whereas for Duran it's not even significant? You do know that Hopkins lost his first ever pro fight right? He also lost two fights in his natural weight class as well as losing to Jones Jr? How does he get a pass for this and yet Duran doesn't?