Tszyu vs De La Hoya & others, how come it didn't happen?

[Benny Leonard]

But,you're the one that said when a fighter moves up, it's "unhealthy" to move back down. Oscar may or may not have had "talks" with Tszyu. But the fact is that Oscar never offered to fight Tszyu and in fact left 140 and NEVER CAME BACK. This happened before Tszyu's loss to Phillips. Your whole argument just blew up in your face.

Oscar did have talks with Tszyu. There was an interview a while back with it. Am I positive? NO, how could I be...I'm not Oscar and I'm not Tszyu so what is written is written but since I am not on the phone talking, it's not in cement.

Oscar doesn't have to offer Tszyu anything after Tszyu was KTFO by Phillips. You can't sell that fight now.

Tszyu could have moved up, but he didn't. He could have moved up after he regained the title...but he didn't. That was the perfect time to move up.

I would have to see if the HBO telecast version is up on Youtube to when Tszyu fought Phillips; I think they may have mentioned it on the air as well...or maybe it was during one of Oscar's fights.

The fight could have easily been made at 147 between the two if Oscar didn't want to move back down after he beat Whitaker.

The Whitaker fight happened just one month prior to Tszyu losing to Phillips.

Oscar was around 140 in the very beginning of the year so it wasn't that much time that Oscar was away when he moved up to face Whitaker.

It depends on the person: Shane said 5 pounds wasn't enough and it was wearing himself out...so he moved up to a healthier weight. For Oscar, I don't know. The only thing I know is he saw the opportunity to fight a Legend and he took it.

If Tszyu had gotten past Phillips, which was only one month after Oscar beat Whitaker that would have been the match.

[Benny Leonard]

"Floyd wasn't worth the risk"?? Rofl.

Benny, you're stretching. Tszyu made his offer to Floyd before Floyd fought Gatti. This was years before Tszyu's Hatton fiasco. This was back when Tszyu was still in his prime. Floyd ignored the offer and signed for the C class Gatti. Fact.

Making a point. Risk vs. Reward = Money.

Tszyu was about Money which is why he took the fight with Hatton...is it not?

Haton for...what was it, 4 million? or would you take Floyd for probably less than half that?

Plus, like I said, HBO and Showtime.

Hatton was right in front of Tszyu and Tszyu saw it as an easy fight.

The Gatti fight was in 2005 and so was Ricky vs. Tszyu.

Tszyu was fighting like once a year. He was always out on disability or holiday.

Floyd didn't move up to 140 until 2004.


And where's your proof that Tszyu offered the fight to Floyd prior to Gatti?
You want proof from me...I want proof from you.

Also discuss the numbers as well as the HBO and Showtime problem.

[Ray*]

"Floyd wasn't worth the risk"?? Rofl.

Benny, you're stretching. Tszyu made his offer to Floyd before Floyd fought Gatti. This was years before Tszyu's Hatton fiasco. This was back when Tszyu was still in his prime. Floyd ignored the offer and signed for the C class Gatti. Fact.

Links to the offer please...Am pretty sure Tsyzu was in NO position to offer Mayweather or Gatti a fight because he had to fight Hatton after 2 years out injured.

Tsyzu showed more interest in fighting Gatti who brings in more money at the time but there was 2 major obstacle...HBO/showtime and tsyzu had to fight Hatton or be stripped, To make him happy Frank warren offered him an unbelievable $4millon to take on Hatton in Manchester and the rest was history.....so please show us the link where Tsyzu offered to fight a Mayweather that didnt really bring any money at that time and i would show you a link where Tsyzu wanted to fight Gatti instead of Mayweather or Hatton.

[Benny Leonard]

So ****ing what? Like I posted before division jumping "champions" make me want to puke. You wanna be a boxing hero? Hold belts in three weight classes AT THE SAME TIME like Homicide Hank did and THEN you'll impress me and get my respect. Otherwise stay in your division and rule it

Poet

So it's not about who you fought, but just that you ruled one division?

So Tszyu should get more credit for his one division reign as opposed to Shane and Oscar for who they fought?

Damn...somebody should have told Pacquio this...as well as Armstrong, Robinson, Langford, Hearns, Duran, etc.

So if the division SUCKS, you should stay instead of going after the Names?

Names don't mean more?

[Wiley Hyena]

Oscar did have talks with Tszyu. There was an interview a while back with it. Am I positive? NO, how could I be...I'm not Oscar and I'm not Tszyu so what is written is written but since I am not on the phone talking, it's not in cement.

Oscar doesn't have to offer Tszyu anything after Tszyu was KTFO by Phillips. You can't sell that fight now.

Tszyu could have moved up, but he didn't. He could have moved up after he regained the title...but he didn't. That was the perfect time to move up.

I would have to see if the HBO telecast version is up on Youtube to when Tszyu fought Phillips; I think they may have mentioned it on the air as well...or maybe it was during one of Oscar's fights.

The fight could have easily been made at 147 between the two if Oscar didn't want to move back down after he beat Whitaker.

The Whitaker fight happened just one month prior to Tszyu losing to Phillips.

Oscar was around 140 in the very beginning of the year so it wasn't that much time that Oscar was away when he moved up to face Whitaker.

It depends on the person: Shane said 5 pounds wasn't enough and it was wearing himself out...so he moved up to a healthier weight. For Oscar, I don't know. The only thing I know is he saw the opportunity to fight a Legend and he took it.

If Tszyu had gotten past Phillips, which was only one month after Oscar beat Whitaker that would have been the match.

Oscar had already left 140 to fight Whitaker by the time Tszyu fought Phillips. This proves my point that Oscar left the division rather than have to fight Tszyu. Why didn't Oscar fight Tszyu before the Whitaker fight? Ummmm......I'm sure we'll hear an assortment of excuses for this "outrageous" accusation.

Oscar had no real plans to fight Tszyu...ever...until maybe he was old, gray, and perhaps on a cane. That was Mayweather's plan. Probably Oscar's, too.

Give it up, Benny. You've been countered by the facts....of all things. Those old facts always seem to get in the way.

[Benny Leonard]

I don't know. Why did Sugar Ray Robinson lose over 10 fights? Beats me. Why did Ali lose to Frazier? Why did Duran lose to ......? You see my point.

No...only if I was a shallow person and didn't want to look into things past ONE. I don't know all the details but I know some.

Some people put Robinson's prime at 128-1...someting like that.

Ray was basically forced to move up to Middle because he couldn't get fights at 147 anymore; he was to dangerous. So it starts to up the risk.



Ray lost 3 fights prior to retiring. One of those fights was against Middle weight Jake LaMotta after 40+ fights or something like that; and another during to MW Randy Turpin during Ray's "European" tour. Ray was moving up from Welter. He would later fight Jake several more times and was the victor...as well as beating Turpin in the rematch. HIs last loss prior to retiring the first time was against Light-Heavyweight Joey Maxim. Ray was actually winning this fight until he ran out of gas towards the end of the fight. After that, Ray retired for 3 years or so. He was past his prime after that for sure.


Ali vs. Frazier: Ali didn't take enough time to give himself the best opportunity to beat an active fighter like Joe Frazier. Ali was also not the same fighter when he returned. He was past his best...but still proved to be good...just not the same physical briliance he once displayed.


Ray also fought WAY MORE than Kostya Tszyu.


And I was serious about that question in regards to why Tszyu lost to Phillips? I don't know and would like to know if you have any information...did he say anything in his books or interviews that you've read?

Notice I never brought up his loss to Hatton...why? because I understood the circumstances.

[Wiley Hyena]

Links to the offer please...Am pretty sure Tsyzu was in NO position to offer Mayweather or Gatti a fight because he had to fight Hatton after 2 years out injured.

Tsyzu showed more interest in fighting Gatti who brings in more money at the time but there was 2 major obstacle...HBO/showtime and tsyzu had to fight Hatton or be stripped, To make him happy Frank warren offered him an unbelievable $4millon to take on Hatton in Manchester and the rest was history.....so please show us the link where Tsyzu offered to fight a Mayweather that didnt really bring any money at that time and i would show you a link where Tsyzu wanted to fight Gatti instead of Mayweather or Hatton.

Exhibit #1: KOSTYA TSZYU DENIES DEAL TO FIGHT HATTON

According to a recent report by GRANTLEE KIEZA, Kostya Tszyu has again confirmed there is no deal to fight hard-hitting Englishman Ricky Hatton for $5million. Two weeks ago Tszyu told The Daily Telegraph exclusively that he wasn't fighting Hatton on March 5 in Manchester as the British press had announced and was forced to repeat his position yesterday after reports out of England saying a deal had been made.

Before heading off to his native Russia to collect a major award from President Vladimir *****, Tszyu said yesterday: "I am not fighting Ricky Hatton in Manchester anytime soon.

"I can't believe Hatton's promoter [Frank Warren] is still saying I am fighting him because there has been no deal made.

"Right now I am having a holiday for a few weeks and just enjoying time with my wife and kids. When it is time to fight again we will see who is on offer. But I promised my family I would not be training over Christmas so I will certainly not be fighting again by March."

When told that Warren said he had a verbal agreement with Tszyu's American-based promoter Vlad Warton, Tszyu smiled and said: "I decide who I fight, no one else."

Tszyu said he was far more interested in an offer of $10.5 million from American promoter Murad Muhammad to fight WBC champion Arturo Gatti and former world junior-lightweight and lightweight champion Floyd Mayweather.

"I want to fight them both," Tszyu said. "They mean a lot more on the world scene than Ricky Hatton."

12-14-2004
kostya-tszyu-news.newslib.com/story/2381-1113289/


____________

But, Mayweather signed to fight for Gatti.........and the rest is history.

[daggum]

So it's not about who you fought, but just that you ruled one division?

So Tszyu should get more credit for his one division reign as opposed to Shane and Oscar for who they fought?

Damn...somebody should have told Pacquio this...as well as Armstrong, Robinson, Langford, Hearns, Duran, etc.

So if the division SUCKS, you should stay instead of going after the Names?

Names don't mean more?

yes because ten years later you can always claim they ducked you and your lovely wbo belt.

[Benny Leonard]

Oscar had already left 140 to fight Whitaker by the time Tszyu fought Phillips. This proves my point that Oscar left the division rather than have to fight Tszyu. Why didn't Oscar fight Tszyu before the Whitaker fight? Ummmm......I'm sure we'll hear an assortment of excuses for this "outrageous" accusation.

Oscar had no real plans to fight Tszyu...ever...until maybe he was old, gray, and perhaps on a cane. That was Mayweather's plan. Probably Oscar's, too.

Give it up, Benny. You've been countered by the facts....of all things. Those old facts always seem to get in the way.

What don't you see?

We would have to find out when the fights were made. Oscar's fight with Whitaker was one month prior to Tszyu's fight with Phillips. Why did Tszyu fight Phillips...was he a mandatory?

Oscar saw the opportunity in the mean time to face Whitaker...wouldn't you fight him or would you face Joe Smith at 140 and wait around?

The Whitaker fight brought more Money, More Fans, and More Fame than Joe Smith at 140 while waiting for Tszyu.


WHY DIDN'T TSZYU MOVE UP IN 2000?

[Benny Leonard]

Exhibit #1: KOSTYA TSZYU DENIES DEAL TO FIGHT HATTON

According to a recent report by GRANTLEE KIEZA, Kostya Tszyu has again confirmed there is no deal to fight hard-hitting Englishman Ricky Hatton for $5million. Two weeks ago Tszyu told The Daily Telegraph exclusively that he wasn't fighting Hatton on March 5 in Manchester as the British press had announced and was forced to repeat his position yesterday after reports out of England saying a deal had been made.

Before heading off to his native Russia to collect a major award from President Vladimir *****, Tszyu said yesterday: "I am not fighting Ricky Hatton in Manchester anytime soon.

"I can't believe Hatton's promoter [Frank Warren] is still saying I am fighting him because there has been no deal made.

"Right now I am having a holiday for a few weeks and just enjoying time with my wife and kids. When it is time to fight again we will see who is on offer. But I promised my family I would not be training over Christmas so I will certainly not be fighting again by March."

When told that Warren said he had a verbal agreement with Tszyu's American-based promoter Vlad Warton, Tszyu smiled and said: "I decide who I fight, no one else."

Tszyu said he was far more interested in an offer of $10.5 million from American promoter Murad Muhammad to fight WBC champion Arturo Gatti and former world junior-lightweight and lightweight champion Floyd Mayweather.

"I want to fight them both," Tszyu said. "They mean a lot more on the world scene than Ricky Hatton."

12-14-2004
kostya-tszyu-news.newslib.com/story/2381-1113289/


____________

But, Mayweather signed to fight for Gatti.........and the rest is history.

HBO and Showtime