Tszyu vs De La Hoya & others, how come it didn't happen?

[The Gully Gad]

Kostya tszyu was bad man...
Followed all of his career the guy was a great fighter..
Shame he didnt have more big names to his resume but dont look to much into that cause this dude was the real deal...

Makes me wanna run upstairs and put my box set career on of good old kostya dim the lights and if no one is looking strip down to my pants and grab my clip on ponytail and shadow box....

[Poet682006]

So it's not about who you fought, but just that you ruled one division?

It's both. It's who you fought IN your division.

So Tszyu should get more credit for his one division reign as opposed to Shane and Oscar for who they fought?

Both would be rated higher if they had stayed at Welterweight.

Damn...somebody should have told Pacquio this...as well as Armstrong, Robinson, Langford, Hearns, Duran, etc.

Maybe someone SHOULD have told Pacquiao that instead of this joke matchup that will do neither fighter any credit. I do believe I addressed my disdain of Hearns' belt hunting. Armstrong and Langford fought in those divisions SIMULTANIOUSLY, a big difference. Robinson SHOULD have stayed at Welterweight unless he was prepared to what Armstrong did. Duran falls into the catagory of the past it fighter who can't keep the weight off anymore which I addressed earlier as well.[/QUOTE]

So if the division SUCKS, you should stay instead of going after the Names?

Names don't mean more?

If the division sucks deal with it. Face it: Your division hopping "heroes" aren't going after names they're going after lucre. Pure and simple. Prostituting their legacy in pursuit of a big purse. Lets face it: If they thought they could make big bucks beating up some MMA stiff on PPV they'd do it their place in history be damned.

PS. I've always said the quickest way to ruin a sport, any sport, is to make it all about the money.

PPS. Hagler's ruling the Middleweight division counts for a LOT more to me than any of Leonard and Hearn's belt collection.

Poet

[Benny Leonard]

=poet682006;4392312]It's both. It's who you fought IN your division.



Both would be rated higher if they had stayed at Welterweight.



Maybe someone SHOULD have told Pacquiao that instead of this joke matchup that will do neither fighter any credit. I do believe I addressed my disdain of Hearns' belt hunting. Armstrong and Langford fought in those divisions SIMULTANIOUSLY, a big difference. Robinson SHOULD have stayed at Welterweight unless he was prepared to what Armstrong did. Duran falls into the catagory of the past it fighter who can't keep the weight off anymore which I addressed earlier as well.



If the division sucks deal with it. Face it: Your division hopping "heroes" aren't going after names they're going after lucre. Pure and simple. Prostituting their legacy in pursuit of a big purse. Lets face it: If they thought they could make big bucks beating up some MMA stiff on PPV they'd do it their place in history be damned.

PS. I've always said the quickest way to ruin a sport, any sport, is to make it all about the money.

PPS. Hagler's ruling the Middleweight division counts for a LOT more to me than any of Leonard and Hearn's belt collection.

Poet

Many historians like to say: Who did the fighter fight?


So it's not harder for a person to move up and face bigger and better opponents?

Robinson had to move up; nobody wanted to fight him at 147...plus, I'm sure someone like him liked the challenge...which is why he risked fighting the LH Champion.


Imagine it like this: You have other Sports...say Baseball. Each team is put in a division, yet they just don't stick with their division...and by the end of the year, they play the best to see who the best is.



Money is always a part of it...even when a fighter stays put...especially if a fighter stays put...he could be playing it safe.

And sometimes, as you age, you can't make weight anymore so you have to move up.

[Ray*]

Exhibit #1: KOSTYA TSZYU DENIES DEAL TO FIGHT HATTON

According to a recent report by GRANTLEE KIEZA, Kostya Tszyu has again confirmed there is no deal to fight hard-hitting Englishman Ricky Hatton for $5million. Two weeks ago Tszyu told The Daily Telegraph exclusively that he wasn't fighting Hatton on March 5 in Manchester as the British press had announced and was forced to repeat his position yesterday after reports out of England saying a deal had been made.

Before heading off to his native Russia to collect a major award from President Vladimir *****, Tszyu said yesterday: "I am not fighting Ricky Hatton in Manchester anytime soon.

"I can't believe Hatton's promoter [Frank Warren] is still saying I am fighting him because there has been no deal made.

"Right now I am having a holiday for a few weeks and just enjoying time with my wife and kids. When it is time to fight again we will see who is on offer. But I promised my family I would not be training over Christmas so I will certainly not be fighting again by March."

When told that Warren said he had a verbal agreement with Tszyu's American-based promoter Vlad Warton, Tszyu smiled and said: "I decide who I fight, no one else."

Tszyu said he was far more interested in an offer of $10.5 million from American promoter Murad Muhammad to fight WBC champion Arturo Gatti and former world junior-lightweight and lightweight champion Floyd Mayweather.

"I want to fight them both," Tszyu said. "They mean a lot more on the world scene than Ricky Hatton."

12-14-2004
kostya-tszyu-news.newslib.com/story/2381-1113289/


____________

But, Mayweather signed to fight for Gatti.........and the rest is history.

HAHAHA Murad Muhammad...that says it all, One a promoter that isnt relevant to either Tsyzu (Showtime)...Gatti(Main event) or Mayweather(HBo/Arum)....

Warren claimed to agree a deal with Tsyzu's australian promoter who didnt inform Tsyzu of the amazing deal that was on offer, Muhammad would have to turn to terrorism to get that kind of money to stage even a Gatti/Tsyzu fight back then.

Facts are Tsyzu had to fight his mandatory in Hatton or be stripped..and he was more interested in fighting gatti at the time because gatti bring better payday.

http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=2064&more=1

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Sport/Tszyu-on-course-to-join-greatest-and-richest/2004/11/08/1099781326348.html

[Benny Leonard]

yes Because Ten Years Later You Can Always Claim They Ducked You And Your Lovely Wbo Belt.

..................................

[Fox McCloud]

Bad answer. Whitaker was over the hill when he fought Oscar. Sorry to bust your balloon but Quartey and Trinidad were not, and never were, Kostya Tszyu.

Bad answer for you as well.

Saying that Whitaker was past his prime means that you give Mayweather a free pass for "ducking" Tszyu because he was (as you have recently admitted) past his prime as well.

Trinidad was higher ranked P4P wise at the time I think...

[Poet682006]

Many historians like to say: Who did the fighter fight?

But they DON'T say Hagler is lacking because he didn't move up to fight Michael Spinks at Light-Heavy or Larry Holmes at Heavy. Nor is Bob Foster penalized for moving up and getting KOed by every Heavyweight he fought. My point is weight jumping is NOT a factor establishing greatness.

So it's not harder for a person to move up and face bigger and better opponents?

Not the issue.

Robinson had to move up; nobody wanted to fight him at 147...plus, I'm sure someone like him liked the challenge...which is why he risked fighting the LH Champion.

I'm sure SOMEBODY wanted that 147 belt.

Imagine it like this: You have other Sports...say Baseball. Each team is put in a division, yet they just don't stick with their division...and by the end of the year, they play the best to see who the best is.

Apples and oranges: The two sports aren't even remotely comparable that way.

Money is always a part of it...even when a fighter stays put...especially if a fighter stays put...he could be playing it safe.

Or not. I seriously doubt Hagler ever "played it safe" in his life. Otherwise why take on Mugabi when Marvin had to know he was slipping and could very well lose that fight.

And sometimes, as you age, you can't make weight anymore so you have to move up.

I've addressed this twice already. You want me to 'splain it a third time?

Poet

[Wiley Hyena]

HAHAHA Murad Muhammad...that says it all, One a promoter that isnt relevant to either Tsyzu (Showtime)...Gatti(Main event) or Mayweather(HBo/Arum)....

Warren claimed to agree a deal with Tsyzu's australian promoter who didnt inform Tsyzu of the amazing deal that was on offer, Muhammad would have to turn to terrorism to get that kind of money to stage even a Gatti/Tsyzu fight back then.

Facts are Tsyzu had to fight his mandatory in Hatton or be stripped..and he was more interested in fighting gatti at the time because gatti bring better payday.

http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=2064&more=1

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Sport/Tsz...781326348.html

All the excuses in the world cannot change the fact that an offer had been made that Tszyu was interested in, but Floyd passed on. Floyd chose to pass it up, and signed for Gatti instead.

[Wiley Hyena]

Bad answer for you as well.

Saying that Whitaker was past his prime means that you give Mayweather a free pass for "ducking" Tszyu because he was (as you have recently admitted) past his prime as well.

Trinidad was higher ranked P4P wise at the time I think...

Nonsense. Your logic is illogical. I don't even think you could make sense of what you just spewed here.

[Benny Leonard]

=poet682006;4392410]But they DON'T say Hagler is lacking because he didn't move up to fight Michael Spinks at Light-Heavy or Larry Holmes at Heavy. Nor is Bob Foster penalized for moving up and getting KOed by every Heavyweight he fought. My point is weight jumping is NOT a factor establishing greatness.

Hagler had some good opponents on his resume. It's the difference between having good opponents to fight and not having them. Can you still be considered great based on your talent?; yeah, probably...but there will always be questions (just like everyone else).

Hagler's legacy will be at 160...but I do think it says he knew he had a limit; which isn't a bad thing. As you move up in weight divisions, the higher the weight, it tends to be a bigger jump, for example: 130 to 135 is 5 pounds...but 140 to 147 is 7 pounds; difference of two pounds. From 160 to 168; 8 pounds. 175, skip CW, to HW, HUGE DIFFERENCE. Funny how HWs rarely get talked about with their height/weight difference...like what Chris Byrd or Holyfield had to go through.

For Tszyu, the best Legacy fights were at 147. This is where two former lightweights were; Shane and Oscar...as well as other opponents like Tito, Forrest, and Mayorga.

Tszyu knew his limits.

Oscar found his out when he faced Hopkins. Shane with Winky.

Not the issue.

And how isn't moving up in weight to challenge bigger opposition not an issue?

It's a greater mountain to climb. Look at what happened to Hatton when he moved up: He struggled against Collazo (who would later be beat by Shane convincingly) and then lost to Floyd Mayweather Jr. when he stepped up in opponent talent level.

I'll give more credit to a fighter that is riksing more. This is why we still hear of the story of David and Goliath. And Great Generals who have taken small armies against greater forces.

I'm sure SOMEBODY wanted that 147 belt.

It was hard for him to get matches. Fighters needed to fight to make money so he kept moving looking for work. They weren't getting paid like they do now. Lots of fighters bounced around divisions looking for work...just like Armstrong.

Or not. I seriously doubt Hagler ever "played it safe" in his life. Otherwise why take on Mugabi when Marvin had to know he was slipping and could very well lose that fight.

He didn't play it safe in the division he felt comfortable; 160. But he didn't move up so we know he knew his limits.

I've addressed this twice already. You want me to 'splain it a third time?

Poet

Yes please...would you. I missed it.