Mayweather & Hatton: Adversity Means Very Little

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

[QUOTE=Wiley Hyena;2659214]

To write off the Tszyu win is going too far. That was Hatton's most impressive performance IMO, even if Tszyu was slowing down (and that's a debatable question on its own). I really don't see how Mayweather's competition can be said to be better than Hatton's. That argument doesn't make sense. Mayweather's record is so full of padding. LOL But, the great thing about this fight is that the padding stops here, for both guys.

Genaro, Jesus Chavez, PRIME Castillo twice, Judah, Famosito, Goyo Vargas, Chop-Chop, Oscar Delahoya, Jukko, Gatti, Diego Corrales and Angel Manfredy.

You don't see that as being better than Hatton's comp? Seriously? Where's the padding there?

Kostya Tszyu was 36 years old and pretty inactive when he fought RH. ..."debatable"??

[Wiley Hyena]

[QUOTE=skilspaydabills;2659219]

Now YOU are contradicting yourself, to the extent where I might as well call you a liar. You should know EXACTLY what I am talking about, becuase
we spoke about this before and you backpeddled on saying Mayweather didn't fight anybody. Now you are back on it? If you think he doesn't than say so but don't go back and forth with your convictions, it just makes you contradict yourself.

Oh now, don't get your panties into a wad. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You want to be considered the last word in boxing on this site? Fine. I don't care. If you want to think that Floyd's record of competition is greater than Hatton's. That's ok with me, too. I just don't agree. That doesn't mean everybody he's fought were nobodies. It just means exactly what I posted. That is, again, that I don't agree that Mayweather's record is more impressive than Hatton's. That was the point of my post. OK? No contradictions or "lying" that I can see.

[Wiley Hyena]

[QUOTE=DIOS DOMINICANO;2659222]

Genaro, Jesus Chavez, PRIME Castillo twice, Judah, Famosito, Goyo Vargas, Chop-Chop, Oscar Delahoya, Jukko, Gatti, Diego Corrales and Angel Manfredy.

You don't see that as being better than Hatton's comp? Seriously? Where's the padding there?

Kostya Tszyu was 36 years old and pretty inactive when he fought RH. ..."debatable"??

Dios: When the Arturo Gatti bout is touted as one of Floyd's biggest wins, then I have to wonder. The De LaHoya fight was his stiffest competition yet, IMO. And, it was a good fight. I'm not taking that away from him. But, how is that fight more impressive than Hatton v. Tszu? I don't see it.

[SkillspayBills]

[QUOTE=Wiley Hyena;2659226]

Oh now, don't get your panties into a wad. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You want to be considered the last word in boxing on this site? Fine. I don't care. If you want to think that Floyd's record of competition is greater than Hatton's. That's ok with me, too. I just don't agree. That doesn't mean everybody he's fought were nobodies. It just means exactly what I posted. That is, again, that I don't agree that Mayweather's record is more impressive than Hatton's. That was the point of my post. OK? No contradictions or "lying" that I can see.

I wear boxers, extra large to be exact. I can respect you don't agree budd I am just saying earlier you said he pads his record, how do you pad your record by fighting less than stellar competitions or...........NOBODIES. That is all I meant by you contradicting yourself. I can also respect that you believe Hatton and Mayweather's records are not more impressive than one another, but one thing is for sure come December 9th, someones record is going to have a "1" next to it.

[Amir K Shareef]

[QUOTE=skilspaydabills;2659246]

I wear boxers, extra large to be exact. I can respect you don't agree budd I am just saying earlier you said he pads his record, how do you pad your record by fighting less than stellar competitions or...........NOBODIES. That is all I meant by you contradicting yourself. I can also respect that you believe Hatton and Mayweather's records are not more impressive than one another, but one thing is for sure come December 9th, someones record is going to have a "1" next to it.

hatton....

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

[QUOTE=Wiley Hyena;2659235]

Dios: When the Arturo Gatti bout is touted as one of Floyd's biggest wins, then I have to wonder. The De LaHoya fight was his stiffest competition yet, IMO. And, it was a good fight. I'm not taking that away from him. But, how is that fight more impressive than Hatton v. Tszu? I don't see it.

well, Oscar is bigger and younger than Tszyu. And was generally perceived as a more complete fighter. Fast with good power and a great chin. Has fought MUCH better comp than Tszyu. Floyd is a little guy. Can probably still make lightweight. And he beat a good guy who had been fighting at 154/160 for years.

Hatton couldn't beat Oscar. Neither could Tszyu. So, in one sense, that in itself makes Floyd's victory impressive.

I don't think that the Gatti WIN was one of Floyd's best. Probably top 10-15. But it was one of his best PERFORMANCES.

[Wiley Hyena]

[QUOTE=skilspaydabills;2659246]

I wear boxers, extra large to be exact. I can respect you don't agree budd I am just saying earlier you said he pads his record, how do you pad your record by fighting less than stellar competitions or...........NOBODIES. That is all I meant by you contradicting yourself. I can also respect that you believe Hatton and Mayweather's records are not more impressive than one another, but one thing is for sure come December 9th, someones record is going to have a "1" next to it.

Well, what I was responding to was your use of the word, "lying". That was a bone headed and overly emotional remark and I was surprised to see that coming from you (as opposed to so many others hanging around in here). On the other hand, finding a "contradiction" is a critical remark that actually deserves a critical response.

"Padding" is a term of art. To me, that involves a boxer electing to fight softer competition than he should at a particular time, especially when there is quality competition available that would help define that boxer's abilities. You may have a different definition, but that's the way I see it. A very good recent example is Arturo Gatti. In regards to Mayweather, I saw Arturo Gatti as padding. What did Floyd have to prove by fighting Gatti at this stage of his career? Was Gatti a "nobody?" No, he was not. But, in my opinion he was "padding." There is nothing contradictory in this from what I've stated before.

And regarding this nonsense that Floyd's record is more impressive than Hatton's, all you have to do to clear it up is to look at the best competition that each fighter has faced thus far. There is no reasonable argument to suggest that Oscar De LaHoya was a more impressive fighter to take on than Kostya Tszyu. Both were aging champions. Both were still formidable.

Ok?.................peace.

[SkillspayBills]

[QUOTE=Wiley Hyena;2659289]

Well, what I was responding to was your use of the word, "lying". That was a bone headed and overly emotional remark and I was surprised to see that coming from you (as opposed to so many others hanging around in here). On the other hand, finding a "contradiction" is a critical remark that actually deserves a critical response.

"Padding" is a term of art. To me, that involves a boxer electing to fight softer competition than he should at a particular time, especially when there is quality competition available that would help define that boxer's abilities. You may have a different definition, but that's the way I see it. A very good recent example is Arturo Gatti. In regards to Mayweather, I saw Arturo Gatti as padding. What did Floyd have to prove by fighting Gatti at this stage of his career? Was Gatti a "nobody?" No, he was not. But, in my opinion he was "padding." There is nothing contradictory in this from what I've stated before.

And regarding this nonsense that Floyd's record is more impressive than Hatton's, all you have to do to clear it up is too look at the best competition that each fighter has faced thus far. There is no reasonable argument to suggest that Oscar De LaHoya was a more impressive fighter to take on than Kostya Tszyu. Both were aging champions. Both were still formidable.

Ok?.................peace.

I said that you CONTRADICTED yourself so fully I could say you were lying but I didn't call you a liar until you explained yourself, and when you did I left it alone, correct? Consensus definition of "padding" your record is fighting to get a win, tune up fights pad your record and so does fighting fighters who have losing records, known to be an easy win and so forth. How am I supposed to know your meaning differs from the consensus, considering I don't I would say you are contradicting yourself but seeing where you are coming from I can understand your meaning. Floyd fought Arturo as his first PPV headline fight. Floyd had to PROVE that he could compete and sell a PPV and that he could be a PPV mainstay by impressing the crowd. He did exactly that with an artistic performance. Did it aid to his legacy, no, did it help get his name out there so people would by more of his ppv's, yes.
Oscar's legacy surpasses Kosta's since Oscar's resume is more impressive and Floyd was fighting a MUCH bigger man come fight night. How can you judge a fighters RESUME on one fight? If I believe correctly floyds 38 collective fights far and away trample all over Hattons 43 collective.

[Wiley Hyena]

[QUOTE=DIOS DOMINICANO;2659283]

well, Oscar is bigger and younger than Tszyu. And was generally perceived as a more complete fighter. Fast with good power and a great chin. Has fought MUCH better comp than Tszyu. Floyd is a little guy. Can probably still make lightweight. And he beat a good guy who had been fighting at 154/160 for years.

Hatton couldn't beat Oscar. Neither could Tszyu. So, in one sense, that in itself makes Floyd's victory impressive.

I don't think that the Gatti WIN was one of Floyd's best. Probably top 10-15. But it was one of his best PERFORMANCES.

Well, Tszyu and De LaHoya never fought. So we will never know. But, I do not think that the De LaHoya of today is nearly as good as the De LaHoya of yesterday (rhetorically speaking), and Kostya Tszyu was one tough SOB. Furthermore, your statement that today's De LaHoya could beat Hatton is subject to legitimate debate. I mean there are comparison fights that are reasonably not subject to debate...for example: Prime George Foreman v. John Ruiz. But, today's De LaHoya v. Hatton and Tszyu don't fit in that category. That is simply your opinion, but it is subject to legitimate debate. For that reason, your analysis is weak and unconvincing.

[Wiley Hyena]

[QUOTE=skilspaydabills;2659337]

I said that you CONTRADICTED yourself so fully I could say you were lying but I didn't call you a liar until you explained yourself, and when you did I left it alone, correct? Consensus definition of "padding" your record is fighting to get a win, tune up fights pad your record and so does fighting fighters who have losing records, known to be an easy win and so forth. How am I supposed to know your meaning differs from the consensus, considering I don't I would say you are contradicting yourself but seeing where you are coming from I can understand your meaning. Floyd fought Arturo as his first PPV headline fight. Floyd had to PROVE that he could compete and sell a PPV and that he could be a PPV mainstay by impressing the crowd. He did exactly that with an artistic performance. Did it aid to his legacy, no, did it help get his name out there so people would by more of his ppv's, yes.
Oscar's legacy surpasses Kosta's since Oscar's resume is more impressive and Floyd was fighting a MUCH bigger man come fight night. How can you judge a fighters RESUME on one fight? If I believe correctly floyds 38 collective fights far and away trample all over Hattons 43 collective.

Thank you for that post. I understand what you're saying about judging a man's record by one fight. Certainly, you are right about that. I used the Tszyu/De LaHoya comparison as a quick method to cut thru the crap. This issue can be debated, and you are entitled to your opinion. Note, I did not say Hatton's competition was greater than Mayweather's, and this is not backtracking either. What I said, and am now saying, is that I do not see that Mayweather's competition has been better than Hatton's. To me, there is not a clear distinction between the two. We could argue each opponent faced and add them up, but that would be tedious and fruitless. All I will say in this regard is that I never highly regarded people like Gatti, Judah, "Chop Chop", and Manfredy. You might hold them in high esteem. I do not. I thought Jose Luis Castillo was the best common opponent of the two fighters and Castillo, coincidentally, lost to BOTH (I will not go into the fact that alot of people thought Mayweather lost to Castillo in the first fight).

So there it is.