Greb cant beat hagler

[Mr. Ryan]

I used to be like you never believing the hype of guys like Greb or Langford without film. After reading hundreds of articles on the old timers. Are these people just making up the fact that they were that great?

I had a debate with John Scully about the old time fighters and whatnot, I believe we were debating who would win in their primes, Ray Robinson or Roy Jones. He said that nobody knows because there is no tape of Ray Robinson in his prime. The truth is, we all read about these guys like Greb and the such, and are conditioned by our minds to believe these guys were unbeatable. I agree with John, that we shouldn't make statements about things we know nothing about.

[K-DOGG]

They want to hype thier boys, its as simple as that.

All those basketball ***gots try and say wilt was this, he was that, he was way better than jordan. Its clear as day jordan is the best, ***s just dont want to swallow that.

Boxing was not a sweet science in those days, it wasnt technical.

...like you're hyping yours, you mean?

Damn. I guess every fighter that's ever been touted as "great" was overrated.

[K-DOGG]

Dempsey practically created the bobbing and weaving style of fighting.

...exactly. Which is why he is viewed by most as the first modern heavyweight.

[BuddyChacon]

I had a debate with John Scully about the old time fighters and whatnot, I believe we were debating who would win in their primes, Ray Robinson or Roy Jones. He said that nobody knows because there is no tape of Ray Robinson in his prime. The truth is, we all read about these guys like Greb and the such, and are conditioned by our minds to believe these guys were unbeatable. I agree with John, that we shouldn't make statements about things we know nothing about.

A middleweight version of Robinson is still something spectacular to watch.

[Mr. Ryan]

Couldn't slip punches or use the jab. What..you think they just stood there like rock-em-sock-em robots?!

No skill?! How the hell do you survive with 4 Oz gloves coming at you all night over the course of a 200 fight career if you don't have skills?

There were a hell of a lot of catchers back in the day. Thats why a guy like Jack Johnson, who didn't use his feet, could beat the living crap out of all the sailors because they didn't use angles and just were drunken wildmen. Stanley Ketchel, considered by most old timers to be the greatest middleweight of all time, would catch a Mayweather-Gatti beating and be forced to quit on his stool if he fought a guy like Ray Leonard or Bernard Hopkins. Why? Because we aren't cavemen.

Why do you think the old timers were all upset by Muhammad Ali's style? Because it was like teaching cavemen how to use a spoon. They didn't want to get "learned."

My trainer told me that Willie Pep and Benny Leonard were the only old timers that he really appreciated because they were skilled boxers in the time of "uncivilized boxing."

And about how they survived with 200 fights and 4 oz gloves? Well, I guess it was social darwinism. And they didn't have teeth. They had wooden choppers like George Washington and choked on splinters.

[brownpimp88]

...like you're hyping yours, you mean?

thier is footage of my boys in action, this sport is a joke. Floyd has a chance to surpass leonard, calazghe has a chance to be the best 168 ever, will u guys support them, no. You will wait until they lose so u can say, "see i told u he was overrated", leonard would have kicked his ass.

Floyd went up to leonard's face and straight up said i'm better than you. He is a real man that appreciates his own skill, he's a real fighter. He aint no posterboy that relies on numerous gift decisions, hes had like 1 arguable gift his whole career, leonard has had like 3.

[Mr. Ryan]

...exactly. Which is why he is viewed by most as the first modern heavyweight.

Dempsey was a catcher. His bobbing and weaving was crude at best. Gene Tunney had his number, so I don't see why a guy like Lewis or Ali wouldn't run him out of the Polo Grounds.

[BuddyChacon]

Dempsey was a catcher. His bobbing and weaving was crude at best. Gene Tunney had his number, so I don't see why a guy like Lewis or Ali wouldn't run him out of the Polo Grounds.

Dempsey hadn't fought very often for a couple of years before facing Tunney and was out of his prime by then.

[brownpimp88]

So Dempsey and those guys had no Skill is what you are saying.

He was a pioneer, what more do u want me to say. He wouldnt have beat guys like liston, frazier and tyson. If you want to live in a dream world, more power to you.

Ray robinson was a leonard with a better chin and knockout power, the guy was special. Willie Pep and Benny Leonard are highly regarded as having true skill by trainers. Which volume punch trains the way greb did? Arron pryor, nope he followed homicide hank.

[K-DOGG]

thier is footage of my boys in action, this sport is a joke. Floyd has a chance to surpass leonard, calazghe has a chance to be the best 168 ever, will u guys support them, no. You will wait until they lose so u can say, "see i told u he was overrated", leonard would have kicked his ass.

Floyd went up to leonard's face and straight up said i'm better than you. He is a real man that appreciates his own skill, he's a real fighter. He aint no posterboy that relies on numerous gift decisions, hes had like 1 arguable gift his whole career, leonard has had like 3.

The point you're missing is what makes a fighter great. The record helps, sure; but if you retire with 50-0 and were never tested, what does it prove? Nothing, that you never gambled, that you never tested yourself, that you management picked your opponents and took no risks.

What makes a fighter great is his ability to suck it up with the going gets tough, when he's down in a fight and being beaten badly and comes back and finds a way to win.

I have no problem ranked Floyd or Joe at the end of their careers; but I will rank them not on their record, but on their competition when comparring them to the ones who came before.