Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[GhostofDempsey]

Johnson who loved money took 1911 off and fought no one! He could have fought Langford, Jeannette, Mcvey. Or Gunboat Smith. There was talk of matching him vs Luther McCarty but he was too good and I doubt the match comes off. McCarty and Smith were the best of the " white hopes " but too good to get a match! Well we can speculate on McCarty as he did not live long enough. Yes--Johnson was dishonorable. Not even a signed contact was good enough for a fight if the other guy had some ability. Johnson did not make much money vs Jim Johnson in France. $ 5,000.00 I think. The Moran fight was a fiasco, Moran wasn't even paid. Johnson got his money for Willard and also got knocked out.

On a side topic Jack wasn't sure he could go 20 rounds vs Moran. He said so after the fight. He did of course with a lot of clinching and dirty fighting.

He took off 1911 and most of 1913. Mostly to avoid Langford, McVey and Jeannette.

[ShoulderRoll]

Nice to read a post that isn't clouded by hatred. It's been suggested,by one of the haters, that Johnson could have fought Jeannette in1911 who did Jeannette beat that year to make him a viable contender?
He lost twice to Langford and could only draw with Jim Barry,and Tony Ross whom the two haters describe as rubbish.Johnson of course toyed with Ross,flooring him 3 times.

Gunboat Smith has also been named as a viable challenger in1911.That year he lost to and drew with 10-5-2 Charlie Miller,lost to 27-14-8 Jim Barry and was knocked out by journeyman Jack Geyer 11-3-1.

With performances like that it seems like a forced narrative to say those guys were top contenders who were deserving of a title shot.

[Dr. Z]

With performances like that it seems like a forced narrative to say those guys were top contenders who were deserving of a title shot.

Smith turned pro in 1909. He lost a few on the way up. By 1913 he was definitely a contender beating Frank Moran ( Johnson fought him a title shot ), defeated Jess Willard who ko'd Johnson, Ko'd Fireman Flynn and Ross ( who received title shots form Johnson ) and beat the highly avoid Sam Langford who Johnson refused to mix with as champ. I'd say he was qualified for a title shot, wouldn't you? Yet he was avoided. Hmmmmmm....

" And he never forgot it " the punch that put Johnson down and left him dazed. - Smith who was interviewed in the book in this corner.

[Ivich]

With performances like that it seems like a forced narrative to say those guys were top contenders who were deserving of a title shot.

Smith won a debateable decision over Langford in1913

Smith relied almost totally on a stiff left jab, but Langford seemed unfazed by it and bided his time, working to the body. Late in the fight he began a serious assault and had Smith bleeding freely. When referee Fleming raised Smith's arm in victory, many ringsiders were surprised. (This "mixed bout" had previously been banned by the state of New York.)

A year later Langford took him out in3 rds

[travestyny]

Smith turned pro in 1909. He lost a few on the way up. By 1913 he was definitely a contender beating Frank Moran ( Johnson fought him a title shot ), defeated Jess Willard who ko'd Johnson, Ko'd Fireman Flynn and Ross ( who received title shots form Johnson ) and beat the highly avoid Sam Langford who Johnson refused to mix with as champ. I'd say he was qualified for a title shot, wouldn't you? Yet he was avoided. Hmmmmmm....

" And he never forgot it " the punch that put Johnson down and left him dazed. - Smith who was interviewed in the book in this corner.

Gunboat Smith beat Willard with insulation tape for hand wraps. Nearly ripped off Willard's ear.

Who knows if he wins without his doctored wraps. Also, who knows how much he used them.

[GhostofDempsey]

Smith turned pro in 1909. He lost a few on the way up. By 1913 he was definitely a contender beating Frank Moran ( Johnson fought him a title shot ), defeated Jess Willard who ko'd Johnson, Ko'd Fireman Flynn and Ross ( who received title shots form Johnson ) and beat the highly avoid Sam Langford who Johnson refused to mix with as champ. I'd say he was qualified for a title shot, wouldn't you? Yet he was avoided. Hmmmmmm....

" And he never forgot it " the punch that put Johnson down and left him dazed. - Smith who was interviewed in the book in this corner.

Good post, keep spreading that knowledge.

[Willie Pep 229]

Gunboat Smith beat Willard with insulation tape for hand wraps. Nearly ripped off Willard's ear.

Who knows if he wins without his doctored wraps. Also, who knows how much he used them.

What's insulation tape suspose to do?

Can you show any history of this tape existing before 1925? Because some guy had a 1925 patent issued under that name. That tape was cloth and rubber based and used for paint masking.

There doesn't seem to be any plastic based tapes until the 1940s. So why does a cloth/rubber based tape inside a glove rip off an ear?

[ShoulderRoll]

What's insulation tape suspose to do?

Can you show any history of this tape existing before 1925? Because some guy had a 1925 patent issued under that name. That tape was cloth and rubber based and used for paint masking.

There doesn't seem to be any plastic based tapes until the 1940s. So why does a cloth/rubber based tape inside a glove rip off an ear?

Fitzsimmons wrapped his hands with electrical tape for the second fight with Jim Jeffries in 1902.

[Willie Pep 229]

Fitzsimmons wrapped his hands with electrical tape for the second fight with Jim Jeffries in 1902.

There seems no historical record of plastic electoral tape before 1946.

Any tape called insulation tape before then was going to be cloth and/or rubber based. So how is that an advantage in a leather glove?

[travestyny]

What's insulation tape suspose to do?

Can you show any history of this tape existing before 1925? Because some guy had a 1925 patent issued under that name. That tape was cloth and rubber based and used for paint masking.

There doesn't seem to be any plastic based tapes until the 1940s. So why does a cloth/rubber based tape inside a glove rip off an ear?

Gunboat Smith admit to loading his gloves with insulation tape and attested to the damage it did.

Of the Willard scrap, Smith reports with all due honesty (in Peter Heller’s “In This Corner”) that, “So in the tenth round I hit him with one of my right hands, but it was on the ear. Tore his ear right off. That hushed him up for the rest of the fight. The blood was running down, and Oh God, I, of course, had my gloves “loaded”. I had insulation tape laid across my hands.”

https://www.the13thround.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=28806

The article also tells why his career went down hill.