Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[Willie Pep 229]

Your interpretation of these stories is interesting, but definitely not definitive.

Yep! Certainly not!

[ShoulderRoll]

Jeffries and his chief second carefully examined Fitz's wraps,are you now telling that ,having detected loaded gloves,easily discernable,,they then said oh,okay we will let that go? Why would they inspect them in the first place if that was their attitude?
ps Electrical tape forms a brick on your hand.

Like I said, It's possible they didn't catch it. Or because of the age advantage AND the 47 lbs weight advantage they let it go.

But either way it it appears to have happened.

"It was later revealed the challenger had in fact wrapped his hands with electrical tape instead of gauze, with no one from Jeffries’ camp objecting."
https://www.thefightcity.com/july-25...itzsimmons-ii/

[Willie Pep 229]

Like I said, It's possible they didn't catch it. Or because of the age advantage AND the 47 lbs weight advantage they let it go.

But either way it it appears to have happened.

"It was later revealed the challenger had in fact wrapped his hands with electrical tape instead of gauze, with no one from Jeffries’ camp objecting."
https://www.thefightcity.com/july-25...itzsimmons-ii/

An uncited article from 2022 telling us it was commonly known that Fitzsimmons wrapped his hands with 'electoral' tape.

The term at that time was insulation tape and it was made of cloth, rubber, and glue. And maybe some rosin. Which I am still at this point ignorant of but will eventually get a handle on it.

His use of the phrase 'electric tape' is telling, questioning research and possibly exposing us to just other popular history sources who have repeated the story before.

[ShoulderRoll]

An uncited article from 2022 telling us it was commonly known that Fitzsimmons wrapped his hands with 'electoral' tape.

The term at that time was insulation tape and it was made of cloth, rubber, and glue. And maybe some rosin. Which I am still at this point ignorant of but will eventually get a handle on it.

His use of the phrase 'electric tape' is telling, questioning research and possibly exposing us to just other popular history sources who have repeated the story before.

So every source that mentions it is wrong, but you are right? Or what?

[Willie Pep 229]

So every source that mentions it is wrong, but you are right? Or what?

I'm not saying I'm right.

Every source is in question all the time.

Many times stories are clipped from a secondary source only to reappear in a brand new secondary source. E.g. It was never 100 degrees in Cuba in 1915, but you can pull up a dozen web pages that claim it was. Often with one clipping from another, or from a written secondary text.

No one until just two years ago, got around to looking at a Havana newspaper and confirmed the temperature to be in the mid to low 70s.

Multiple sources saying the same thing means nothing unless they show a proper citing back to something primary in nature.

So, no I'm not right. I have no clue. I don't even have an opinion.

But that source is close to being nothing.

"So what is history, but lies agreed upon."

[BattlingNelson]

The use of electrical tape (or bicycle tape) was a wellknown dirty trick back then.


Here's a piece from an old thread of mine:

In an article from The San Francisco Call (1910) I found an article going through the tricks of the trade of the prize fighters. The article tells about the psychological warfare of Bob Fitzsimmons, Tommy Ryan, 'Kid' McCoy and others. This is stuff that is well known today as is hitting after the bell and so on.

I have made excerpts below telling of dirty tricks which isn't possible today and goes to show the nasty business the fightgame was. This is about 'Kid' McCoy:

"The rosin on the glove.
Notice the "Kid," for instance, lithe and amiable, strolling about the ring, immediately prior to a professional engagement. There are little heaps of rosin scattered about, the canvas-stretched floor, and the "Kid" wipes his feet in them, kicks them playfully, without the least apparent preconceived intent in the world. - He smiles at his friends and pleasantly, receives their applause. But the rosin in the ring becomes gradually "accelerated" in the direction of his corner, if there be none already, there.

The gloves have been chosen; and the seconds crowd about their men, carefully pushing the horsehair padding away from the center. They bend over
to fix them on the principle that accidents will sometimes happen in fact they always happen in the "Kid's" corner. Before he has an opportunity, to
assume them they drop regularly into that rosinheap drop there and are squeezed and twisted into it ere they are picked up and finally assumed. And a rosined glove may be made to cut like a knife in the hands of a McCoy. Infact it often has cut like a knife, and in nicely calculated places, too. 'This is
but a single one in the sum of tricks McCoy has practiced.

Bicycle tape.
It was McCoy too, who introduced the ingenious practice of putting a heavy layer of bicycle tape upon his hands. Then the "Kid," in dressinggown, would
pleasantly argue in the center of the ring as to the desirability of that tape's removal would argue till the tape had become hardened like iron. He would
then smilingly take off as much of the tape as was possible. But bicycle tape has the unforlunate, qualification of adhering, when heated,and the final strand would still stay on.

McCoy would grirnace helplessly and his opponent would usually overlook the last and most dangerous strand of all. McCoy's knuckles would, however, be protected with bands like iron, which a trick of the trade had made possible. This ingenious little device has been the occasion of making the pugilist of the
present time doubly careful as to the hand bandages of an opponent. It is the legacy. of,McCoy to his profession."

The article ends with this:

"After such instances of artistry as these it would be almost inartistic to descend to the comparative crudeness of a "Young" Corbett, whose virulence and reflective character of language regularly put his opponents into a frenzy which made them easy to defeat or yet the unshaven and artificially wired
condition of a Battling Nelson's hair, with which to bore into an opponent's eyes. There could only be stated that one example of cunning, when an opponent of the latter went into a contest with the lightweight champion with gloves which were in an extremely acidulated condition. These completely blinded the courageous but human Battler and almost
defeated him.

It is, however, sufficient to indicate the tricks of a trade which is apparently severe in more ways than one. Most of these tricks are unfair, yes; but what
tricks are not? Many gentlemen of many desirable professions live in glass houses, it seems. Can they afford to throw stones at gentlemanly pugilists?"


The article can be found here: http://www.loc.gov/chroniclingameric...ort=&mode=list

And here's a pic of Battling Nelson showing the wear and tear of his style:

[ShoulderRoll]

The use of electrical tape (or bicycle tape) was a wellknown dirty trick back then.


Here's a piece from an old thread of mine:

That source won't be good enough for Willie Pep 229, I'm afraid.

[Ivich]

That source won't be good enough for Willie Pep 229, I'm afraid.

Only death bed confessions accepted!

[Willie Pep 229]

That source won't be good enough for Willie Pep 229, I'm afraid.

Correct . . .

[ShoulderRoll]

Correct . . .

Likewise, I'm going to need a little more than just your opinion as to why all these sources should be ignored.