Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[Incapable]

Why are you trolling from this obvious Ivich alt, and quoting yourself as well? I know you're a touch insane but this is just embarrassing.

Lol like I said, If I'm an alt then I'm sure it'll be obvious when I get booted.
Your the insane one pal.
Proper nutter

[BattlingNelson]

One more post not on topic, and this thread gets closed.

[Ivich]

I knew it!
I thought it was that clown. He went off a rant and got himself kicked off. Lol
He always was a bit of a strange one.

Let's leave it there, and talk boxing with those that come here for it, ,and there are some good guys here.

[Incapable]

Let's leave it there, and talk boxing with those that come here for it, ,and there are some good guys here.

No problem, mate.

[Dr. Z]

Why are you trolling from this obvious Ivich alt, and quoting yourself as well? I know you're a touch insane but this is just embarrassing.

It's so sad it's almost funny. Don't address him other that Ivich's alt. Back to Johnson, he's not that good and is over rated. Who were the best prime fighters he fought?

Men who weren't middle weights, too young and green, or old? A good question! I'd that Choynski, Marvin Hart, and Hank Griffin were quality fighters, the best that Johnson fought besides Willard. And what happed? He lost to all three of them! Think about it. They were not middle weights, too young and green, or old!

As champion Johnson in 1909 got his chin clipped by novice GunBoat Smith, out boxed by 162 pound O'Brien according to some in a news draw in 1909, and should have lost a 10 rounder to Jim Battling Johnson in a draw that one judge voted for Battling Jim, and two others voted for a draw! I don't make this stuff up. News reports said Johnson was almost out. If it were a 12-15+ round match he would have been.

[GhostofDempsey]

It's so sad it's almost funny. Don't address him other that Ivich's alt. Back to Johnson, he's not that good and is over rated. Who were the best prime fighters he fought?

Men who weren't middle weights, too young and green, or old? A good question! I'd that Choynski, Marvin Hart, and Hank Griffin were quality fighters, the best that Johnson fought besides Willard. And what happed? He lost to all three of them! Think about it. They were not middle weights, too young and green, or old!

As champion Johnson in 1909 got his chin clipped by novice GunBoat Smith, out boxed by 162 pound O'Brien according to some in a news draw in 1909, and should have lost a 10 rounder to Jim Battling Johnson in a draw that one judge voted for Battling Jim, and two others voted for a draw! I don't make this stuff up. News reports said Johnson was almost out. If it were a 12-15+ round match he would have been.

This is what I've been saying all along. People get very defensive when you criticize certain fighters...Johnson, Ali, Floyd, but if you can quantify your criticism of them with reason and examples to support your criticism, then what's the problem? Fans of these fighters want to cherry pick the writers and journalists whose books align with their bias, same as Johnson cherry picking his entire career. When I point out that his best wins are middleweights and LHW, people get angry, but it's true. When I point out that Jeannette and McVey had less than 20 and 10 fights respectively when they fought Johnson, it's true. McVey was 19 when he fought Johnson, Langford was about 20. Yet those same fans insist Loughran was only 21 when he fought Greb so he gets a pass? Johnson drew the color line as champ, and the only time he crossed it was to fight a lesser opponent in Jim Johnson, and he accepted far less than $5K for the fight, actually only got about $1K...yet earlier that year he turns down a $20K offer from Jeannette! Johnson may say he would fight them, he may even sign a worthless contract knowing full well he wouldn't honor it or the fight could not be made. It's also odd that the accusations of racism come into play when you criticize him, because we are praising Langford as the greater fighter.

[Dr. Z]

This is what I've been saying all along. People get very defensive when you criticize certain fighters...Johnson, Ali, Floyd, but if you can quantify your criticism of them with reason and examples to support your criticism, then what's the problem? Fans of these fighters want to cherry pick the writers and journalists whose books align with their bias, same as Johnson cherry picking his entire career. When I point out that his best wins are middleweights and LHW, people get angry, but it's true. When I point out that Jeannette and McVey had less than 20 and 10 fights respectively when they fought Johnson, it's true. McVey was 19 when he fought Johnson, Langford was about 20. Yet those same fans insist Loughran was only 21 when he fought Greb so he gets a pass? Johnson drew the color line as champ, and the only time he crossed it was to fight a lesser opponent in Jim Johnson, and he accepted far less than $5K for the fight, actually only got about $1K...yet earlier that year he turns down a $20K offer from Jeannette! Johnson may say he would fight them, he may even sign a worthless contract knowing full well he wouldn't honor it or the fight could not be made. It's also odd that the accusations of racism come into play when you criticize him, because we are praising Langford as the greater fighter.

All true. Like I said when he fought decent heavyweights in what could be viewed as their primes ( slight past it in two cases ) he lost. And in 1909 his absolute prime he suffered a TKO loss in a 4 round match exhibition, a 6 round news draws where others thought he lost and was floored by a crude middle weight! Later on he was lucky to draw with a journeyman! If this happened to Ali, good grief he would be picked apart. Larry Holmes would be viewed as a phony and Klitschko, well forget about it! All the time by ducking the best 4-5 men in title fights!

[travestyny]

All true. Like I said when he fought decent heavyweights in what could be viewed as their primes ( slight past it in two cases ) he lost. And in 1909 his absolute prime he suffered a TKO loss in a 4 round match exhibition, a 6 round news draws where others thought he lost and was floored by a crude middle weight! Later on he was lucky to draw with a journeyman! If this happened to Ali, good grief he would be picked apart. Larry Holmes would be viewed as a phony and Klitschko, well forget about it! All the time by ducking the best 4-5 men in title fights!

He beat the tar out of Jim Jefferies who admit he could have never beat Johnson.

[Ivich]

He beat the tar out of Jim Jefferies who admit he could have never beat Johnson.

1. www.nytimes.com › 1912/08/15 › archivesJOHNSON SIGNS TO FIGHT.; Champion Will Be Jeannette's ...
   
   
   CHICAGO, Aug. 14. -- Jack Johnson to-day signed articles to fight Joe Jeannette ten rounds before the St. Nicholas Club of New York on Sept. 23.

[travestyny]

1. www.nytimes.com › 1912/08/15 › archivesJOHNSON SIGNS TO FIGHT.; Champion Will Be Jeannette's ...
   
   
   CHICAGO, Aug. 14. -- Jack Johnson to-day signed articles to fight Joe Jeannette ten rounds before the St. Nicholas Club of New York on Sept. 23.

They know this. Won't stop them from telling the same old lies though.