Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[GhostofDempsey]

What's insulation tape suspose to do?

Can you show any history of this tape existing before 1925? Because some guy had a 1925 patent issued under that name. That tape was cloth and rubber based and used for paint masking.

There doesn't seem to be any plastic based tapes until the 1940s. So why does a cloth/rubber based tape inside a glove rip off an ear?

One has to assume that if one or some fighters were using some magic, more lethal tape, they’d all be using it at some point. Why would any of them give up that option if it was perfectly legal? Smith also said that he hit Willard with his best punches square on the jaw and nothing phased him, he kept coming forward.

[Willie Pep 229]

Gunboat Smith admit to loading his gloves with insulation tape and attested to the damage it did.




The article also tells why his career went down hill.

Yea but what does he actually know?

What if his trainer wrapped his hands in a cloth/rubber based tape and told him he had an advantage. It made him feel like he had an edge.

What advantage does a cloth/rubber based tape inside a leather glove actually give a fighter?

I just don't see how this loaded glove thing works and can't imagine why it would rip an ear off.

Besides Willards ears didn't look that mangled years later.

Just how valuable is Smith as a source?

[travestyny]

Yea but what does he actually know?

What if his trainer wrapped his hands in a cloth/rubber based tape and told him he had an advantage. It made him feel like he had an edge.

What advantage does a cloth/rubber based tape inside a leather glove actually give a fighter?

I just don't see how this loaded glove thing works and can't imagine why it would rip an ear off.

Besides Willards ears didn't look that mangled years later.

Just how valuable is Smith as a source?

Well being that Smith admit to it and Willard also admit to guys loading their wraps on him, I'd say they knew a whole lot being that one of them was throwing the punches and one of them was receiving them.

“I have been up against pretty rough practice in the matter of hand wrappings which really amounted to armor over the knuckles,” Willard said in newswire article just days before his butchering in Toledo. “Some fellows have wound adhesive tape so thickly that the fist felt like iron through the glove.

When Willard spoke about having been up against slugs in his career prior to facing Dempsey, he was telling the truth. In 1913, Willard lost a 20-round decision to Gunboat Smith in a bout where Willard’s ear was shredded. Years later, Smith would tell Peter Heller just how Willard sustained such a grievous wound. “So in the tenth round I hit him with one of my right hands, but it was on the ear. Tore his ear right off. That hushed him up for the rest of the fight. The blood was running down, and oh God, I, of course, had my gloves ‘loaded.’ I had insulation tape laid across my hands.”

https://thisbrutalglory.com/2018/07/...willard-fight/

[Willie Pep 229]

Well being that Smith admit to it and Willard also admit to guys loading their wraps on him, I'd say they knew a whole lot being that one of them was throwing the punches and one of them was receiving them.

Both the accusations and the claims appear too often but no one ever really explains anything.

IMO Just great stories.

Seems to me the real key to cheating with gloves is taking something out, not adding to them.

P.S. now if you're talking a metal bar or something similar than that's different.

[travestyny]

Both the accusations and the claims appear too often but no one ever really explains anything.

IMO Just great stories.

Seems to me the real key to cheating with gloves is taking something out, not adding to them.

P.S. now if you're talking a metal bar or something similar than that's different.

Well we both know why that is your opinion.

What is there to explain? The guy doing the hitting says the wraps do more damage, the guy being hit says the wraps do more damage. I think they would know.

[Ivich]

Fitzsimmons wrapped his hands with electrical tape for the second fight with Jim Jeffries in 1902.

Fitz's ungloved hands were carefully examined by Jeffries in the ring, and nothing amiss was found ,that is a known fact.

Electrical tape feels like a solid mass,a brick, when it is wrapped around hands.It is easily detectable if manually examined.
Fitz had bad hands for years, earlier, when he smashed up Ruhlin he asked Ruhlin's manager for permission to wear extra gauze for their fight,which was granted.
Jeffries wore no wraps under his gloves,after the Armstrong fight, for which he did and injured his hand,and had to call off his second bout that night.

[Willie Pep 229]

Well we both know why that is your opinion.

What is there to explain? The guy doing the hitting says the wraps do more damage, the guy being hit says the wraps do more damage. I think they would know.

So comes the ad hominem.

Let me offer the same --> We both know why that is your opinion.

Explain how cloth and rubber tape makes a leather glove harder and causes an ear to rip off.

Just great stories but no one ever proves anything; no one ever explains how it works.

[Dr. Z]

Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post

Smith turned pro in 1909. He lost a few on the way up. By 1913 he was definitely a contender beating Frank Moran ( Johnson fought him a title shot ), defeated Jess Willard who ko'd Johnson, Ko'd Fireman Flynn and Ross ( who received title shots form Johnson ) and beat the highly avoid Sam Langford who Johnson refused to mix with as champ. I'd say he was qualified for a title shot, wouldn't you? Yet he was avoided. Hmmmmmm....

" And he never forgot it " the punch that put Johnson down and left him dazed. - Smith who was interviewed in the book in this corner.

Good post, keep spreading that knowledge.

I will. These are the facts. How the " squad " reacts to them is their bias.

[QueensburyRules]

So comes the ad hominem.

Let me offer the same --> We both know why that is your opinion.

Explain how cloth and rubber tape makes a leather glove harder and causes an ear to rip off.

Just great stories but no one ever proves anything; no one ever explains how it works.

- - Science has yet to explain the physics of boxing interacting wif h0m0 sapiens physiology.

[travestyny]

So comes the ad hominem.

Let me offer the same --> We both know why that is your opinion.

Explain how cloth and rubber tape makes a leather glove harder and causes an ear to rip off.

Just great stories but no one ever proves anything; no one ever explains how it works.

What ad hominem? Do you know what an ad hominem is???????

Who said it was cloth and rubber tape. I'm going by people who WERE HIT and who WERE DOING THE HITTING. You are making up what you want and again, we both know why.


Everyone involved directly agrees....but you are telling them they are making it up. Make it make sense.