Why have modern fighters not evolved to be better than SRR

[Dr. Z]

Robinson had nearly 200 fights while Vits had 47. I'm sure if he had feasted on 2nd rate fighters most of his career and had fought almost a 3/4 less fights he would have fared much better after 40.

Do you really want to get into resumes here? Robinson fought a ton of great fighters and beat nearly all of them. Vits lost to the only top guys he ever fought, the only guys either upper echelon or great. Would you like to discuss Ray and the black murderers row? Feel free. I promise i will tear your arguments apart. First off, most would fall into the right timeline or weightclass to have these fights happen. Not all of course, but can we rally expect Robinson to fight everyone? You say he fought no eastern europeans. Was he supposed to fight upright, uptight amateurs? He didn't fight Latinos? He beat Kid Gavilan, probably the most accomplished Latinos of that era.

I'm not a Vits hater, I'm a realist. He was a tough guy who fought lousy competition most of his career. His brother did not, which is why he is the more accomplished of the two. You want to say Vits dominated the cards against Byrd and Lewis? Please. Every round of the Byrd fight was relatively close with Vits edging them slightly. The cards don't tell the whole story. You can look at the punch stats and see Vits only landed 8 more punches over Byrd the entire fight. You can watch it and see Byrd make him miss time and agaian and keep backing him up. These are facts. The Lewis fight? Getting your face ripped off was hardly dominating. At the end, the better fighter won.

So please get out of here with your crazy talk about Louis and Robinson. I notice you ran out of the Louis thread. I also noticed you never answered Ivich when he called you out about your double standards with Jeffries fighting smaller fighters and all white? Your agenda is becoming very clear.

Stop not accepting the facts of what I write. He fought zero eastern europeans and very few Latinos, or black fighters. You know the groups that produce the best fighters ranging form 147-168 pounds today.

Vitali Klitschko fought over 300+ matches when you factor in Pro Boxing , pro kick boxing, amateur boxing, and amateur kick boxing. He meet all types of men.

Sugar Ray Robinson beat Gavilan. That guy who lost 30 times and drew 5 times

"The contest was a most interesting and satisfying one. Gavilan's performance was such as to make Ray admit that he feared to take chances. In the fourth round Sugar Ray suffered a cut over the right eye that bled throughout the bout

How can a guy who fought 10 ring magazine contenders and other men who were champions, or contenders who were not currently not ranked fight " Lousy " competition? He beat two guys that beat Wlad in dominating fashion.

Jeffries fought all white fighters you say? Now your obviously lying or vastly un-informed.

Haters will hate, at least your agree that the reason Byrd won was the injury to Vital's torn shoulder. Yet you to harp about him retiring but say no such thing about Robinson. Double standard, right?

[JAB5239]

Stop not accepting the facts of what I write. He fought zero eastern europeans and very few Latinos, or black fighters. You know the groups that produce the best fighters ranging form 147-168 pounds today.

Vitali Klitschko fought over 300+ matches when you factor in Pro Boxing , pro kick boxing, amateur boxing, and amateur kick boxing. He meet all types of men.

Sugar Ray Robinson beat Gavilan. That guy who lost 30 times and drew 5 times



How can a guy who fought 10 ring magazine contenders and other men who were champions, or contenders who were not currently not ranked fight " Lousy " competition? He beat two guys that beat Wlad in dominating fashion.

Jeffries fought all white fighters you say? Now your obviously lying or vastly un-informed.

Haters will hate, at least your agree that the reason Byrd won was the injury to Vital's torn shoulder. Yet you to harp about him retiring but say no such thing about Robinson. Double standard, right?

Robisons competition was excellent, Vits comp was awful.

And if Byrd only won because of the injury Vits would have rematched him. The fight was close throughout with Vits edging most of the rounds.

What black fighter did Jeffries ever defend against, what was the percentage of black fighters fought and what was the average weight of his opponents? What's Jeff got, 1 or 2 black fighters on his resume?

You don't offer facts, you offer opinions. And bad ones at that. You're wanting Robinson to have fought eastern europeans in a time they could not turn pro. Same with Louis. It's ridiculous.

[Dr. Z]

Robisons competition was excellent, Vits comp was awful.

And if Byrd only won because of the injury Vits would have rematched him. The fight was close throughout with Vits edging most of the rounds.

What black fighter did Jeffries ever defend against, what was the percentage of black fighters fought and what was the average weight of his opponents? What's Jeff got, 1 or 2 black fighters on his resume?

You don't offer facts, you offer opinions. And bad ones at that. You're wanting Robinson to have fought eastern europeans in a time they could not turn pro. Same with Louis. It's ridiculous.

You are avoided my points. Just because you say Vitali's competition was awful doesn't make it so that's why I used 3rd party known rankings like Ring Magazine to shut you down. Jeffries fought more than 1 or 2 back fighters , look it up and try not write fake news. This is a history forum you know. I already told you that when Byrd signed with Don King, King was interested in Byrd fighting his own men for the belt he had. Like Joe Louis who fight only two black man or three black men title defense out of 26, Robinson did not fight may good back contenders and the one he foguth beat him. He did not fight many Latinos and obvisouly zero Eastern Europeans.

I am offering several facts, you just don't listen and play double standards.

[Ivich]

You are avoided my points. Just because you say Vitali's competition was awful doesn't make it so that's why I used 3rd party known rankings like Ring Magazine to shut you down. Jeffries fought more than 1 or 2 back fighters , look it up and try not write fake news. This is a history forum you know. I already told you that when Byrd signed with Don King, King was interested in Byrd fighting his own men for the belt he had. Like Joe Louis who fight only two black man or three black men title defense out of 26, Robinson did not fight may good back contenders and the one he foguth beat him. He did not fight many Latinos and obvisouly zero Eastern Europeans.

I am offering several facts, you just don't listen and play double standards.

Fact Jeffries refused many, many times to defend against black challengers and never did.

Fact Robinson fought the following good to great black fighters
Jones
Turner
Gavilan x2
Mims
Wilson x2
Wade
Basora x2
Costner x3
Bell x2
Harrington x3
Hudson
Turpinx2
Armstrong
Fact Louis fought the following good to great black fighters
Bivins
Walcott x2
Charles
Walker
Agramonte x2
Lewis

How many latino fighters were there available for Robinson to fight? He fought
Dupas
Flores x2
Ayon
Ferd Hernandez
Art Hernandez
Whom did he miss?
You are getting systematically picked apart in threads on this forum and are either too dumb to notice it, or too ignorant to stop.

Now name the 10 ring ranked contenders you say Vitali beat?

[Willow The Wisp]

Has this devolved into a debate about Vitali Klitschko vs. Sugar Ray Robinson resumes?????
Wow - Wheeeeee!!!

Pleany of places to jump back it here.
I chose here:
Any use of The Ring ratings as a support for quantifying resume opponent talent MUST be accompanied by a caveat that speaks to the level available at the time those ratings were compiled.
Remember that During Vitali's prime, Fres Oquendo, Kirk Johnson, Monte Barrett, James Toney, Calvin Brock, Serguei Lyakhovich, Vladimir Verchis, Alexander Dimitrenko, Eddie Chambers, Denis Boytsov and Robert Helenius all enjoyed a Ring top 10 ranking!!! In most other eras, including today's, you'd be hard pressed to slip any of those heavyweights into the top 15. And of that group, I suppose Helenius is the best of them.
It would be complimentary to say that regardless of the era Vitali fought the best that was available, but he didn't even do that. Wladimir did.
Vitali was excellent, don't misunderstand me. But not as good a a number of others in the 21st century.

Don't know what else I can contribute if that doesn't sink in.

[JAB5239]

Has this devolved into a debate about Vitali Klitschko vs. Sugar Ray Robinson resumes?????
Wow - Wheeeeee!!!

Pleany of places to jump back it here.
I chose here:
Any use of The Ring ratings as a support for quantifying resume opponent talent MUST be accompanied by a caveat that speaks to the level available at the time those ratings were compiled.
Remember that During Vitali's prime, Fres Oquendo, Kirk Johnson, Monte Barrett, James Toney, Calvin Brock, Serguei Lyakhovich, Vladimir Verchis, Alexander Dimitrenko, Eddie Chambers, Denis Boytsov and Robert Helenius all enjoyed a Ring top 10 ranking!!! In most other eras, including today's, you'd be hard pressed to slip any of those heavyweights into the top 15. And of that group, I suppose Helenius is the best of them.
It would be complimentary to say that regardless of the era Vitali fought the best that was available, but he didn't even do that. Wladimir did.
Vitali was excellent, don't misunderstand me. But not as good a a number of others in the 21st century.

Don't know what else I can contribute if that doesn't sink in.

Do you know what else those fighters have in common? Vits fought NONE of them. Tough guy.....enexcusable resume.

[Dr. Z]

I'm not saying SSR doesn't have a very good resume. I'm saying it contains USA and UK white guys for contedenrs, and is mainly void of Black, Latino, and Eastern European fighters! You know the best fighters are 147-160 today.

[JAB5239]

I'm not saying SSR doesn't have a very good resume. I'm saying it contains USA and UK white guys for contedenrs, and is mainly void of Black, Latino, and Eastern European fighters! You know the best fighters are 147-160 today.

But he doesn't fight today, which make your whole point ridiculous. He fought the best of his time. Does anyone think LaMotta and Basilio wouldn't be great today?

[Ivich]

But he doesn't fight today, which make your whole point ridiculous. He fought the best of his time. Does anyone think LaMotta and Basilio wouldn't be great today?

Armstrong
Gavilan x2
Costner x3
Wade
Basora
Turpin x2
Jones
Wilsonx2
Hudson
Bell

That's a pretty decent list of black fighters,imo.

[Ivich]

Has this devolved into a debate about Vitali Klitschko vs. Sugar Ray Robinson resumes?????
Wow - Wheeeeee!!!

Pleany of places to jump back it here.
I chose here:
Any use of The Ring ratings as a support for quantifying resume opponent talent MUST be accompanied by a caveat that speaks to the level available at the time those ratings were compiled.
Remember that During Vitali's prime, Fres Oquendo, Kirk Johnson, Monte Barrett, James Toney, Calvin Brock, Serguei Lyakhovich, Vladimir Verchis, Alexander Dimitrenko, Eddie Chambers, Denis Boytsov and Robert Helenius all enjoyed a Ring top 10 ranking!!! In most other eras, including today's, you'd be hard pressed to slip any of those heavyweights into the top 15. And of that group, I suppose Helenius is the best of them.
It would be complimentary to say that regardless of the era Vitali fought the best that was available, but he didn't even do that. Wladimir did.
Vitali was excellent, don't misunderstand me. But not as good a a number of others in the 21st century.

Don't know what else I can contribute if that doesn't sink in.

Look up how many top ten Ring ranked fighters Vitali beat,and tell me where he gets ten from?
Charr
Chisora
Briggs
Sosnowski
Williams
Bean
Donald
Sanders
Puritty
Sullivan
Mahone
Hide
Norris
Arreola
All unranked when he fought them
Question marks over
Solis
Byrd


Below Ranked
Adamek
Gomez
Peter
Now find the other 7?