Why have modern fighters not evolved to be better than SRR

[Flickergrab98]

That’s a pretty subjective assertion. But I think the simplest answer is that life and history don’t work like a video game

[Dr. Z]

Why with modern sports science, nutrition and modern training equipment etc. have modern/today's fighters not evolved to be greater fighters/boxer than Sugar Ray Robinson. It is 65-70yrs since Sugar Ray Robinson ruled the boxing world, yet we have not seen a fighter come close to matching his greatness or his incredible ability. But before Sugar Ray Robinson, we had great fighters like Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong, Harry Grebb who some historians even claimed could have been on a par with Robinson.

SRR was a brilliant talent who made a living fighting mostly USA and British white guys, and occasional a black talent. It's not like he faced and beat may talented black fighters or white eastern europeans. Two groups that dominate Welters and Middle wights today. Very few Latinos too. He lost to Randy Turpin and did not fight the boxing murders row. Make no mistake about it SRR was talented.

[JAB5239]

SRR was a brilliant talent who made a living fighting mostly USA and British white guys, and occasional a black talent. It's not like he faced and beat may talented black fighters or white eastern europeans. Two groups that dominate Welters and Middle wights today. Very few Latinos too. He lost to Randy Turpin and did not fight the boxing murders row. Make no mistake about it SRR was talented.

You keep bring up Eastern Europeans. What was an Eastern European amateur in the 40's gonna do against the likes of Robinson and Louis? These guys fought and beat the best professional fighter the world had to offer over and over. Have you actually watched Eastern European fighters from back then? Most, up until the time they came to America were upright and stiff as a board.

You mention Robinson lost to Turpin. He also knocked him out. You will ride Vits D*ck, but dome seem to mind that he never rematched Byrd and missed fighting 28 ring ranked opponents in favor of fighting the likes of.....well, all you have to do is look at his weak resume. But hey, it's OK because he's Eastern European, right?

[Nash out]

I've been reading a lot of the banned user Marchegiano's threads. That guy had some really well made points when it came to big picture things and in this case I think he;s got it about right. Boxing works in cycles not progression toward a higher level. What sells is how people fight. For example, RJJ is one of the greatests but skill-wise RJJ did a lot wrong on purpose and both won and sold based on his genetic gifts.

He came back under another name. Is that gone too? Mysterio or something along those lines. Nash out

[Dr. Z]

You keep bring up Eastern Europeans. What was an Eastern European amateur in the 40's gonna do against the likes of Robinson and Louis? These guys fought and beat the best professional fighter the world had to offer over and over. Have you actually watched Eastern European fighters from back then? Most, up until the time they came to America were upright and stiff as a board.

You mention Robinson lost to Turpin. He also knocked him out. You will ride Vits D*ck, but dome seem to mind that he never rematched Byrd and missed fighting 28 ring ranked opponents in favor of fighting the likes of.....well, all you have to do is look at his weak resume. But hey, it's OK because he's Eastern European, right?

We don't know how they would do vs eastern europeans . Sugar Ray Robinson once quit is a match too. Vitali did not re-match Byrd due to Don King. Everybody knows Byrd won because Vitali was injured. You keep repeating it because of why? I wanted to see a re-match too. Vitali didn't get the re-match vs Lennox Lewis either! He said he do it, the money was there, but in the end he changed his mind.

[JAB5239]

We don't know how they would do vs eastern europeans . Sugar Ray Robinson once quit is a match too. Vitali did not re-match Byrd due to Don King. Everybody knows Byrd won because Vitali was injured. You keep repeating it because of why? I wanted to see a re-match too. Vitali didn't get the re-match vs Lennox Lewis either! He said he do it, the money was there, but in the end he changed his mind.

Robinson proved himself again and again against great fighters, Vits didnt.didn't. Vits didnt get a rematch with Lennox becuse he retired. It's not like he was still rated for years closely together, it's not like he unretired after not taking a rematch. He called it a day after beating the best fighters his generation had to offer. So do us all a favor and stop trying to degrade the careers of men who fought and beat the best of their times over and over, while trying to defend a guy who missed 28 top ten ranked fighters to instead fight the Sosnowski end Charrs of his own era. It's a bad look.

[Dr. Z]

Robinson proved himself again and again against great fighters, Vits didnt.didn't. Vits didnt get a rematch with Lennox becuse he retired. It's not like he was still rated for years closely together, it's not like he unretired after not taking a rematch. He called it a day after beating the best fighters his generation had to offer. So do us all a favor and stop trying to degrade the careers of men who fought and beat the best of their times over and over, while trying to defend a guy who missed 28 top ten ranked fighters to instead fight the Sosnowski end Charrs of his own era. It's a bad look.

SRR is one if the five best all time pound per pound fighters in my opinion. He also mostly proved it vs.American whites, non-latino's and non eastern European fighters And few black fighters. Just a few. Surprisingly enough that impress you. ( sarcasm )

That is my point and it true. Who are the best fighters from welter to middle weight today? Latinos, black's, and Eastern Europeans. Who did SRR mostly fights, American white guys, British white guys, and a few black guys, not none of the murders row types or old communist types. In other words the groups that dominate pro boxing form welter to middle weight today.

Like SSR Robison Vitali is a first time hall of fame enshrined fighter. He did not have to wait behind the 5 year rule to be enshrined. You opinion doesn't matter here. Again it is fact.

Keep bottom feeding by suggesting Vitali didn't fight contenders, while at the same time ignoring the fact that Sugar Ray lost a lot of times when he was a 40 and older to non contenders while bringing up Charr Vitali last fight and Sonsowski fights he did not lose a round to and knocked out when he was that age. Again it would have been nice to see re-matches for Vitali but the fighters he lost to Byrd and Lewis ( in fights where there we no knock downs and Vitali dominated the cards ) did not offer them, in Lewis case he went against his word and known offers.

You are a hater on the Vitali. I've seen better that you.

[Ivich]

SRR is one if the five best all time pound per pound fighters in my opinion. He also mostly proved it vs.American whites, non-latino's and non eastern European fighters And few black fighters. Just a few. Surprisingly enough that impress you. ( sarcasm )

That is my point and it true. Who are the best fighters from welter to middle weight today? Latinos, black's, and Eastern Europeans. Who did SRR mostly fights, American white guys, British white guys, and a few black guys, not none of the murders row types or old communist types. In other words the groups that dominate pro boxing form welter to middle weight today.

Like SSR Robison Vitali is a first time hall of fame enshrined fighter. He did not have to wait behind the 5 year rule to be enshrined. You opinion doesn't matter here. Again it is fact.

Keep bottom feeding by suggesting Vitali didn't fight contenders, while at the same time ignoring the fact that Sugar Ray lost a lot of times when he was a 40 and older to non contenders while bringing up Charr Vitali last fight and Sonsowski fights he did not lose a round to and knocked out when he was that age. Again it would have been nice to see re-matches for Vitali but the fighters he lost to Byrd and Lewis ( in fights where there we no knock downs and Vitali dominated the cards ) did not offer them, in Lewis case he went against his word and known offers.

You are a hater on the Vitali. I've seen better that you.

Vitali was38 against Sosnowski and 41 for his last fight ,against Charr .

Robinson was fighting into his 44 th year.Mentioning Vitali and Robinson in the same breath is like coupling Muhammad Ali up with Audley Harrison!

Robinson fought 12 reigning champions thats more ranked contenders than Vitali met!

[Ivich]

Robinson proved himself again and again against great fighters, Vits didnt.didn't. Vits didnt get a rematch with Lennox becuse he retired. It's not like he was still rated for years closely together, it's not like he unretired after not taking a rematch. He called it a day after beating the best fighters his generation had to offer. So do us all a favor and stop trying to degrade the careers of men who fought and beat the best of their times over and over, while trying to defend a guy who missed 28 top ten ranked fighters to instead fight the Sosnowski end Charrs of his own era. It's a bad look.

He got thrashed on this very subject on another forum ,just as he did on the Louis thread.

[JAB5239]

SRR is one if the five best all time pound per pound fighters in my opinion. He also mostly proved it vs.American whites, non-latino's and non eastern European fighters And few black fighters. Just a few. Surprisingly enough that impress you. ( sarcasm )

That is my point and it true. Who are the best fighters from welter to middle weight today? Latinos, black's, and Eastern Europeans. Who did SRR mostly fights, American white guys, British white guys, and a few black guys, not none of the murders row types or old communist types. In other words the groups that dominate pro boxing form welter to middle weight today.

Like SSR Robison Vitali is a first time hall of fame enshrined fighter. He did not have to wait behind the 5 year rule to be enshrined. You opinion doesn't matter here. Again it is fact.

Keep bottom feeding by suggesting Vitali didn't fight contenders, while at the same time ignoring the fact that Sugar Ray lost a lot of times when he was a 40 and older to non contenders while bringing up Charr Vitali last fight and Sonsowski fights he did not lose a round to and knocked out when he was that age. Again it would have been nice to see re-matches for Vitali but the fighters he lost to Byrd and Lewis ( in fights where there we no knock downs and Vitali dominated the cards ) did not offer them, in Lewis case he went against his word and known offers.

You are a hater on the Vitali. I've seen better that you.

Robinson had nearly 200 fights while Vits had 47. I'm sure if he had feasted on 2nd rate fighters most of his career and had fought almost a 3/4 less fights he would have fared much better after 40.

Do you really want to get into resumes here? Robinson fought a ton of great fighters and beat nearly all of them. Vits lost to the only top guys he ever fought, the only guys either upper echelon or great. Would you like to discuss Ray and the black murderers row? Feel free. I promise i will tear your arguments apart. First off, most would fall into the right timeline or weightclass to have these fights happen. Not all of course, but can we rally expect Robinson to fight everyone? You say he fought no eastern europeans. Was he supposed to fight upright, uptight amateurs? He didn't fight Latinos? He beat Kid Gavilan, probably the most accomplished Latinos of that era.

I'm not a Vits hater, I'm a realist. He was a tough guy who fought lousy competition most of his career. His brother did not, which is why he is the more accomplished of the two. You want to say Vits dominated the cards against Byrd and Lewis? Please. Every round of the Byrd fight was relatively close with Vits edging them slightly. The cards don't tell the whole story. You can look at the punch stats and see Vits only landed 8 more punches over Byrd the entire fight. You can watch it and see Byrd make him miss time and agaian and keep backing him up. These are facts. The Lewis fight? Getting your face ripped off was hardly dominating. At the end, the better fighter won.

So please get out of here with your crazy talk about Louis and Robinson. I notice you ran out of the Louis thread. I also noticed you never answered Ivich when he called you out about your double standards with Jeffries fighting smaller fighters and all white? Your agenda is becoming very clear.