Best defensive fighters NOT named Whitaker, Pep, Locche, Mayweather

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Ha yeah I'm obviously not dis*****g he pulled it out he knocked him out.

My point is Nunn was well ahead, you have to land punches to do that.

You can win rounds and be up and not really land anything.. Look at calzaghe or taylor 1 vs hopkins

Nunn was the busier guy but he wasn't landing anything, or at least anything with substance.. Toney was just lethargic and non active till about the 9th rd..

And yeah toney got hit at every weight class but the same can be said for about any defender..
Take floyd
130-'augustus bloodied him
135- castillo
140- Corley rocked him
147- shane rocked him, zab tagged him early, Maidana 1
154- cotto bloodied him, Oscar was able to land when he was using his jab


Like I said earlier,, I can't call him the greatest defender but I think it's wrong to call him overrated

[IronDanHamza]

You can win rounds and be up and not really land anything.. Look at calzaghe or taylor 1 vs hopkins

Nunn was the busier guy but he wasn't landing anything, or at least anything with substance.. Toney was just lethargic and non active till about the 9th rd..

And yeah toney got hit at every weight class but the same can be said for about any defender..
Take floyd
130-'augustus bloodied him
135- castillo
140- Corley rocked him
147- shane rocked him, zab tagged him early, Maidana 1
154- cotto bloodied him, Oscar was able to land when he was using his jab


Like I said earlier,, I can't call him the greatest defender but I think it's wrong to call him overrated

None of those fighters other than Castillo in the first fight hit Floyd consistently though out the fight.

Tiberi, Sosa, and many others hit Toney on a consistent basis throughout the fight all to a point where he could/should have lost.

I think if Tiberi and Sosa hit you that much then it is fair to say it. I don't care if he was "out of shape" if his defense was as good as people make out he wouldn't get hit that much by that caliber of opponent.

[billeau2]

How can you be clearly well ahead in a fight if you land nothing? It's impossible.

Nunn landed punches and plenty of them.

I don't know, we can't say because those fighters don't get fat and go up to ****** weight classes due to being fat.

Like I said, his chin is better than his defense, he got hit plenty at HW aswell.

Got hit plenty at cruiserweight against Jirov.

He's been hit a lot every weight class he's fought in.

Which defeats the purpose of defense.

Yeah he does slip punches very well at times, avoids punches well at times, lands nice flashy counters at times, but he's not consistent with it. I think it's easy to just look at the good points and ignore the bad ones. And Toney has plenty of bad ones.

I'm a fan of Toney and he does have a good defense I'm not dis*****g that but like I said it's overrated, it's not as good as people make out.

You are not considering one important point. At the higher weight classes good defensive fighters often deflect shots that hit them with proper movement. Toney had that ability, which is the only reason he could get hit by heavyweights. Deflecting shots, moving so you are hit at an angle where your head is not snapped back, etc are part of defense.

Getting ht by Nunn is nothing to be ashmed of, the guy was a spectacular talent. Toney was bobbing and weaving a lot in that fight to take the sting off those shots and to set up an opportunity to catch Nunn.

You can't opine that Toney got hit by lesser opponents and then neglect how he was able to easily survive Peter and Rahman's shots... He could not simply take these shots flush, he had to be doing something. His body positioning, is ability to make the opponent know they will be countered all figure into his defensive strategy.

[billeau2]

Also Toney didn't use his feet as much as Floyd did. His defence was more based on angles and waiting to land the counter. When you're in the pocket as often you're bound to get hit more then when you're moving around.

Exactly. Which is why you have to know about angles to set at and how to be in position so that when you come foward you are the right distance to catch the opponent. Toney was definitely less mobile than the smaller defensive wizards.

[IronDanHamza]

You are not considering one important point. At the higher weight classes good defensive fighters often deflect shots that hit them with proper movement. Toney had that ability, which is the only reason he could get hit by heavyweights. Deflecting shots, moving so you are hit at an angle where your head is not snapped back, etc are part of defense.

Getting ht by Nunn is nothing to be ashmed of, the guy was a spectacular talent. Toney was bobbing and weaving a lot in that fight to take the sting off those shots and to set up an opportunity to catch Nunn.

You can't opine that Toney got hit by lesser opponents and then neglect how he was able to easily survive Peter and Rahman's shots... He could not simply take these shots flush, he had to be doing something. His body positioning, is ability to make the opponent know they will be countered all figure into his defensive strategy.

I didn't bring up Nunn.

I'm not forgetting anything. Yeah, Toney had a knack of rolling with the shot and taking the damage of off it.

Still, I still think his chin is better than his defense. He was hit clean by Peter quite a few times yet was never hurt.

[greeh]

Also Toney didn't use his feet as much as Floyd did. His defence was more based on angles and waiting to land the counter. When you're in the pocket as often you're bound to get hit more then when you're moving around.

That's nigh on impossible with a pair of Khaosai feet. Let's not pretend he had much of a choice.

[ShoulderRoll]

The young version of Mike Tyson had pretty good defense. His head movement in particular was exemplary.

[soul_survivor]

Anyone heard of this one guy called Muhammad Ali?

I know he was popular for a while...

[greeh]

Anyone heard of this one guy called Muhammad Ali?

I know he was popular for a while...

He was ****e.

[IronDanHamza]

The young version of Mike Tyson had pretty good defense. His head movement in particular was exemplary.

Very good the only thing was after the first 4 rounds it began to become a lot more stationary.