Best defensive fighters NOT named Whitaker, Pep, Locche, Mayweather

[kiDynamite92]

how about Ezzard Charles?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Jack johnson had a unique defense,,, not sure if it would be allowed today, as ref hardly ever let guys fight in the clinch

[Rostov Papa]

Marlon starling is a good one..


My whole point is that nearly all the truly great defenders have multiple styles of defense.. Guys like hopkins or floyd, etc can stand in the pocket, or walk guys down, or get on their bike.. Whatever the situation calls for they can adapt..
With toney and winky, they really only had one way to defend and weren't as versatile, yet they were so good at the one way they defended, it didn't matter that they were one dimensional in the defense department..

This...

There's three main aspects of defense - high guard/blocking; foot movement/keeping distance; and upper body and head movement.

The greatest can catch and block punches with high guard, or philly shell type guard with their shoulders, arms, gloves... They can create and maintain distance to stay out of range while on their bike... Or weave, duck, and dodge with head and upper body.

[Suckmedry]

The greatest defensive fighters defend while leaving themselves in an effortless position to counter. Whitkaer and Toney are the two beset I've seen

[Sugar Adam Ali]

The greatest defensive fighters defend while leaving themselves in an effortless position to counter. Whitkaer and Toney are the two beset I've seen

Good point,,, especially toney,, his counters land,, it's "lights out"

[IronDanHamza]

I think Toney's defense is very overrated.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I think Toney's defense is very overrated.

Couldn't disagree more, and I'm pretty sure nunn, Barkley, mccallum, evander, would all disagree...

I don't see any other of these great defenders doing what james did.. Put 40 pounds on floyd and let him be 187 lbs fighting jirov and huck,, hell put on 15 pounds and fight ggg or froch,,,
Same thing goes for benitez, pep, etc...


None of these guys could defend vs much bigger men... Toney could, and did vs ranked heavyweights, way past toneys prime... None of the other guys could move up 15 lbs past fighting weight, let alone fighting guys the size of heavyweights



Toney may not be the goat defender, but he certainly is an atg one, and def not overrated..

[IronDanHamza]

Couldn't disagree more, and I'm pretty sure nunn, Barkley, mccallum, evander, would all disagree...

I don't see any other of these great defenders doing what james did.. Put 40 pounds on floyd and let him be 187 lbs fighting jirov and huck,, hell put on 15 pounds and fight ggg or froch,,,
Same thing goes for benitez, pep, etc...


None of these guys could defend vs much bigger men... Toney could, and did vs ranked heavyweights, way past toneys prime... None of the other guys could move up 15 lbs past fighting weight, let alone fighting guys the size of heavyweights



Toney may not be the goat defender, but he certainly is an atg one, and def not overrated..

I don't think Nunn would disagree, Nunn hit him at will.

McCallum hit him a lot aswell.

As did Tiberi, Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa, none of them had trouble landing and all arguable beat him.

None of them could defend against bigger men? Floyd has put on 25 lbs in his career, most of the others have all gone up a lot in weight, Toney went high on weight but he was a fat mess, I think his chin was better than his defense.

He had a good defense it's just overrated and IMO clearly. Dave Tiberi hit Toney with ease for the entire fight and Toney should have lost that fight. Sub par fighters didn't have trouble landing consistently for whole fights.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I don't think Nunn would disagree, Nunn hit him at will.

McCallum hit him a lot aswell.

As did Tiberi, Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa, none of them had trouble landing and all arguable beat him.

None of them could defend against bigger men? Floyd has put on 25 lbs in his career, most of the others have all gone up a lot in weight, Toney went high on weight but he was a fat mess, I think his chin was better than his defense.

He had a good defense it's just overrated and IMO clearly. Dave Tiberi hit Toney with ease for the entire fight and Toney should have lost that fight. Sub par fighters didn't have trouble landing consistently for whole fights.

A few valid points and that's why I don't have toney as the goat defender.. But a lot of the fights you mentioned, like the Tiberi fight, clearly isn't the best version of toney... Toney never had the consistency from fight to fight, and he had bad ring generalship... Toney's chin was so good, I think he would allow guys to come beat him alittle just so he could hit a big counter and get them out of there..
Nunn I thought never really landed flush but once or twice.. Mccallum did, but when your fighting the best your gonna get tagged a bit.. Reggie only caught him with one huge bomb that changed the fight if memory serves correct, I don't think he did much beforehand...

Floyd has gone up in weight, but he is fighting at a natural weight.. Guys fill out and rise in weight, especially the guys that turn pro at college age, mid 20s they fill out, and by early 30s they fill out some more....
Toneys range is 160-175.. That's his fighting weight, but toney became fat and still was able to defend against the bombs of Rahman, Peter, evander... Let floyd get back and rise 40 pounds past 147 and there is no way with all his ability would he be able to hold off kovolev or Marco huck

Toney was his own worst enemy, and had some shaky performances, but that shouldn't derail what he did when he was motivated and serious about a fight..

Anyways, my only point is I don't think you can call toney an overrated defender.. Def not the greatest, but def not overrated either

[IronDanHamza]

A few valid points and that's why I don't have toney as the goat defender.. But a lot of the fights you mentioned, like the Tiberi fight, clearly isn't the best version of toney... Toney never had the consistency from fight to fight, and he had bad ring generalship... Toney's chin was so good, I think he would allow guys to come beat him alittle just so he could hit a big counter and get them out of there..
Nunn I thought never really landed flush but once or twice.. Mccallum did, but when your fighting the best your gonna get tagged a bit.. Reggie only caught him with one huge bomb that changed the fight if memory serves correct, I don't think he did much beforehand...

Floyd has gone up in weight, but he is fighting at a natural weight.. Guys fill out and rise in weight, especially the guys that turn pro at college age, mid 20s they fill out, and by early 30s they fill out some more....
Toneys range is 160-175.. That's his fighting weight, but toney became fat and still was able to defend against the bombs of Rahman, Peter, evander... Let floyd get back and rise 40 pounds past 147 and there is no way with all his ability would he be able to hold off kovolev or Marco huck

Toney was his own worst enemy, and had some shaky performances, but that shouldn't derail what he did when he was motivated and serious about a fight..

Anyways, my only point is I don't think you can call toney an overrated defender.. Def not the greatest, but def not overrated either

Nunn landed plenty, he was clearly well ahead in the fight before the stoppage you don't do that by landing nothing.

What's defense really about? Evading punches. Well Toney got hit a lot, at every stage if his career, they aren't the only fight he got hit a lot in.

Toney has good defense but I don't see how he's in these kind of discussions when he got hit the amount he did.

People use his lack of discipline as an excuse but Benitez, Locche had the same problems and got his way less than Toney did.

Toney in his prime years was hit consistently and easily by Dave Tiberi, excuses or not that's telling.

Good defense, nice flashy counter punches but I don't see how his defense is on the level of Floyd, Whitaker, Benitez etc