Prime Ali vs Prime Marciano: Who wins?

[juggernaut666]

For what it's worth.. I don't see Rock as a one punch at a time guy. If you watch his eyes in tape he's always looking to land another. 1 punch guys just look to land one and they dont look AFTER. He had a more deliberate pace, but it flowed well in its destructive way.. at the same time, it was an awkward style to handle as well. I think alot of people here don't realize how truly awkward and difficult it was to fight a Rocky Marciano. Every punch was thrown with bad intentions. Having said that 60's Ali is a freak of nature with a significant weight advantage. I think he figures Marciano's awkward rhythm out and out boxes him in a close one.

Throwing one punch is throwing one punch,even if you are standing in the same spot the next day then throw another..... Marciano was simply not a muli punch guy and a few clips of him doing so says noithing. He won mainly on one shot direct and deliberate shots..Ali wouldn't just stand there like all rocks other guys did. You alos have to remember during the Marcinao period they were all come forward fighters that did all the work for him and no tall moving jabbers of a 6'3 natural. cooper did floor Ali but he had reach,i don't think ppl understand the better fighter is not always the more effective. With ali you need at least 2 things ,speed or length. Marcinao has neither.

[Syf]

Throwing one punch is throwing one punch,even if you are standing in the same spot the next day then throw another..... Marciano was simply not a muli punch guy and a few clips of him doing so says noithing. He won mainly on one shot direct and deliberate shots..Ali wouldn't just stand there like all rocks other guys did. You alos have to remember during the Marcinao period they were all come forward fighters that did all the work for him and no tall moving jabbers of a 6'3 natural. cooper did floor Ali but he had reach,i don't think ppl understand the better fighter is not always the more effective. With ali you need at least 2 things ,speed or length. Marcinao has neither.

I have Ali winning this fantasy matchup... but the main reason Rock was so deliberate and awkward was because he was loading up with nearly every shot he threw, and he had the incredible stamina and superior pacing to do so for an entire fight. He was always looking to land more than one shot..there was always a next..and a next. His seemingly slow pacing was awkward to time the defense for. I notice he would vary his timing in small increments inbetween shots..makes it hard to defend against him.

He was adept at throwing punches from different ranges.. mid and close range specifically. From distance he did have some lunging shots but those are what would get him in trouble..overextending..getting countered.. ect. In close though.. Ali would be in danger. Ali would have a task of having to keep a determined Marciano at arms length for the whole fight. Or a majority of it. I think he could do it, but I also think Marciano was so awkward that Ali would not have an easy time of it. Marciano's seemingly-choppy-but-actually-makes-sense-in-the-end rhythm is not so easy to time as a casual look at the tape would suggest...Offensively or defensively.

[juggernaut666]

I have Ali winning this fantasy matchup... but the main reason Rock was so deliberate and awkward was because he was loading up with nearly every shot he threw, and he had the incredible stamina and superior pacing to do so for an entire fight. He was always looking to land more than one shot..there was always a next..and a next. His seemingly slow pacing was awkward to time the defense for. I notice he would vary his timing in small increments inbetween shots..makes it hard to defend against him.

He was adept at throwing punches from different ranges.. mid and close range specifically. From distance he did have some lunging shots but those are what would get him in trouble..overextending..getting countered.. ect. In close though.. Ali would be in danger. Ali would have a task of having to keep a determined Marciano at arms length for the whole fight. Or a majority of it. I think he could do it, but I also think Marciano was so awkward that Ali would not have an easy time of it. Marciano's seemingly-choppy-but-actually-makes-sense-in-the-end rhythm is not so easy to time as a casual look at the tape would suggest...Offensively or defensively.

When comparing two fighters its not really about what THAT guy did as much as the style he would be fighting. Ali simply did not exist in his era and no fighter like him that Marciano faced. I would see Marciano struggling severly in this match ...the rest you said was correct but it goes back to Marcianos own era and who he fought.

[Syf]

When comparing two fighters its not really about what THAT guy did as much as the style he would be fighting. Ali simply did not exist in his era and no fighter like him that Marciano faced. I would see Marciano struggling severly in this match ...the rest you said was correct but it goes back to Marcianos own era and who he fought.

Undoubtedly. But everyone already knows about Ali's qualities, and how he would be a favorite to win the fight and pose a problem. There does seem to be some fuzziness over what Rocky could do and how he could be a problem, though. Thought Id add some perspective on that angle. Ali's sterling qualities have been iterated and reiterated ad nauseam. There are many who view Rocky as merely a tough guy with crude technique, but there was most definitely a method to his madness!

[Joe Beamish]

I can't see Ali hurting Marciano, but I can sure see Marciano hurting Ali. Nor can I see Ali getting into Rocky's head -- which, let's face it, was usually one of Ali's biggest advantages against most opponents, many of whom lost the fight before it even began. Frazier and Norton were exceptions, and I believe Marciano would also have been an exception.

Ali is the greater heavyweight in a round robin of all time greats. But I give Marciano a great shot in this fight.

[Elroy1]

I can't see Ali hurting Marciano, but I can sure see Marciano hurting Ali. Nor can I see Ali getting into Rocky's head -- which, let's face it, was usually one of Ali's biggest advantages against most opponents, many of whom lost the fight before it even began. Frazier and Norton were exceptions, and I believe Marciano would also have been an exception.

Ali is the greater heavyweight in a round robin of all time greats. But I give Marciano a great shot in this fight.

This is one of those rare moments where a defence of Ali is warranted.

Ali is one of the most featherfisted hitters of all time, even nut bags will mostly declare he was not a big puncher which by extension is like from a realist saying he could not punch through the surface tension of water!

Conversely, Marciano is often referred to by the nutbaggery as a colossal hitter!!

The FACT of the matter is however, that the actual power difference is somewhere between EVEN and slightly in favour of ALI!!!

All this talk about the hard hitting Marciano, is ONLY relative to the bummy era and the diminutive opponents that he fought!!

Against even ALI ERA opposition, he would be regarded like a Henry Cooper type guy in both power and skill...

And against any 80's+ era fighter he would be regarded as a ridiculous joke for any top boxer...

It is unimaginable how badly Sergio Kovalev would fu**ing waste Marciano!!

[Joe Beamish]

This is one of those rare moments where a defence of Ali is warranted.

Ali is one of the most featherfisted hitters of all time, even nut bags will mostly declare he was not a big puncher which by extension is like from a realist saying he could not punch through the surface tension of water!

Conversely, Marciano is often referred to by the nutbaggery as a colossal hitter!!

The FACT of the matter is however, that the actual power difference is somewhere between EVEN and slightly in favour of ALI!!!

All this talk about the hard hitting Marciano, is ONLY relative to the bummy era and the diminutive opponents that he fought!!

Against even ALI ERA opposition, he would be regarded like a Henry Cooper type guy in both power and skill...

And against any 80's+ era fighter he would be regarded as a ridiculous joke for any top boxer...

It is unimaginable how badly Sergio Kovalev would fu**ing waste Marciano!!

LOL, Henry Cooper would have KTFO'd Ali if Dundee hadn't saved his azz by breaking the rules.

Ali had some power that came into play when he was inside his opponent's head. Look at the second Liston fight. Liston was beat before the fight ever happened. Look at the Foreman fight, same thing. By the 8th round, he just didn't want anymore.

Marciano wasn't like that. He was hard to hit clean, had a weird, awkward style, and got stronger as the fight went on. He's one of the few HW's of all time that I would give at least a a 50-50 shot to beat Ali.

Styles make fights. Norton was better than Ali, head to head, though a lesser fighter overall against other competition. I'd say the same for Marciano.

[Ray Corso]

...."Styles make fights. Norton was better than Ali, head to head, though a lesser fighter overall against other competition. I'd say the same for Marciano".

One of the better observations on this topic!
Marciano is a very difficult opponent for ANYONE!
Marciano did fight and excellant "outside boxer" in Ezzard Charles
and did well breaking down the distances and cutting the ring.
Marciano was difficult to hit cleanly because of his style using bent knees
and coming up out of the crouch punching. His arm angles added to his punchers effect.
As to Ali I can see the bout going many ways. I stated before that the size of the ring would be a huge factor in this match up! A 24' ring would put Marciano at a huge disadvantage just as a 20' would hamper Ali.
I could see this develop into a 3 fight package like Frazier vs Ali.
I believe Marciano is a more effective fighter than Frazier was.


...as for Koval stopping Marciano your dreaming! Koval gets KO'd he has
no chance punching with Marciano. Just look at the punch angles, arm position and weight balance distributed when punching.
Koval has been rocked by light hitting guys and he's fought very few opponents who actually fight back. Marciano by brutal KO.
Ray.

[juggernaut666]

Undoubtedly. But everyone already knows about Ali's qualities, and how he would be a favorite to win the fight and pose a problem. There does seem to be some fuzziness over what Rocky could do and how he could be a problem, though. Thought Id add some perspective on that angle. Ali's sterling qualities have been iterated and reiterated ad nauseam. There are many who view Rocky as merely a tough guy with crude technique, but there was most definitely a method to his madness!

Rocky had slow and stand still footwork..he pawed his jab not really throwing it much until he saw a clear shot ,he waited long on it then slowly slid in to punchers range..when hit he would step back reset often.When Aggressive he would throw wild hooks coming in this however again is where reach is his downfall of telegraphing those shots to a 6'3 78 inch reach fighter who would simply lean back. As the fight went longer Rocky rarely took backward steps and clinched and hit to body mostly…against opponents going backwards after he ate a shot he would always lunge in to counter , however these were slow punches a better fighter would easily avoid..against jabbers like a walcott he would have to stop and pasue ,rethink to continue the forward attack…Ali would not only jab him to death but he would have backward and lateral movement that would frustrate and beat Marciano mentallytake into account cuts.



Frazier was able to get away with a win over Ali simply he had longer reach and more head movement and was less hesitant …the biggest factor everyone is over looking is Frazier had better footwork or actual footwork compared to Marciano.Even only a one arm fighter with those attributes would be a much better advantage than Marciano would have. Chin doesn’t really come into play,Frazier never cut Marciano did.

[juggernaut666]

I can't see Ali hurting Marciano, but I can sure see Marciano hurting Ali. Nor can I see Ali getting into Rocky's head -- which, let's face it, was usually one of Ali's biggest advantages against most opponents, many of whom lost the fight before it even began. Frazier and Norton were exceptions, and I believe Marciano would also have been an exception.

Ali is the greater heavyweight in a round robin of all time greats. But I give Marciano a great shot in this fight.

Many bring up Cooper however they never bring up Cooper was 6'2 with a 75 inch reach who didn't have to bob under to get a clear shot or jump in 3 feet away .......this is the factor ,and why Marciano of 5'11 and a 68 inch reach simply doesn't match well here, no footwork ,no speed ,no reach and a fighter who relied on fighters who stood there to be measured....equals doom here....toughness only goes so far, Ali would have to be off that night to get tko'd here and that's really the only logical outcome here if Marciano were to win!