Prime Ali vs Prime Marciano: Who wins?

[Elroy1]

LOL, Henry Cooper would have KTFO'd Ali if Dundee hadn't saved his azz by breaking the rules.

Ali had some power that came into play when he was inside his opponent's head. Look at the second Liston fight. Liston was beat before the fight ever happened. Look at the Foreman fight, same thing. By the 8th round, he just didn't want anymore.

Marciano wasn't like that. He was hard to hit clean, had a weird, awkward style, and got stronger as the fight went on. He's one of the few HW's of all time that I would give at least a a 50-50 shot to beat Ali.

Styles make fights. Norton was better than Ali, head to head, though a lesser fighter overall against other competition. I'd say the same for Marciano.

Liston and Ali fought to a draw on the scorecards in their first and only real fight, only dropping to Ali by way of quitting with a shoulder injury. And the 2nd match was simply one of the biggest dives in boxing history.

The Foreman match was nothing as you described, it was probably the most gift assisted fight "outside" of the ring ever in boxing history and what happened inside the ring was 2 of the most ******est executed game plans of any 2 boxers in history. On this point, despite all the cheating and favourable circumstances coming Ali's way, luck played the majority of the rest of the reason that it was his ridiculous gameplan that won the day.

These 2 guys have zero relevance toward your MArciano here. It might be plausible that MArciano could hold his own against a Sonny Liston, but with certainty he wouldn't last a round with Foreman.

Marciano was unbelievably pathetically skilled, not so uncoordinated and slow as Liston of course, but Liston was much stronger than Marciano in compensation.

Yes, Henry Cooper wasted Ali that's given, and I agree that Marciano is likewise an outside chance for a shock KO..

But this is because of the shaky 60's Ali chin more than the power of Cooper, and likewise MArciano.

The NORM though would be a Muhammad Ali picking off and cuts stoppage imo.

It would be a pretty bummy fight, just like the rest of Ali's 60's fights...

Ali 70's would easily beat MArciano via a combination of hugging and boxing. He was just too Strong for Rocky.

Ken Norton was of course better than Ali for sure... Doesn't have any relevance for MArciano either.

[Joe Beamish]

Liston and Ali fought to a draw on the scorecards in their first and only real fight, only dropping to Ali by way of quitting with a shoulder injury. And the 2nd match was simply one of the biggest dives in boxing history.

The Foreman match was nothing as you described, it was probably the most gift assisted fight "outside" of the ring ever in boxing history and what happened inside the ring was 2 of the most ******est executed game plans of any 2 boxers in history. On this point, despite all the cheating and favourable circumstances coming Ali's way, luck played the majority of the rest of the reason that it was his ridiculous gameplan that won the day.

These 2 guys have zero relevance toward your MArciano here. It might be plausible that MArciano could hold his own against a Sonny Liston, but with certainty he wouldn't last a round with Foreman.

Marciano was unbelievably pathetically skilled, not so uncoordinated and slow as Liston of course, but Liston was much stronger than Marciano in compensation.

Yes, Henry Cooper wasted Ali that's given, and I agree that Marciano is likewise an outside chance for a shock KO..

But this is because of the shaky 60's Ali chin more than the power of Cooper, and likewise MArciano.

The NORM though would be a Muhammad Ali picking off and cuts stoppage imo.

It would be a pretty bummy fight, just like the rest of Ali's 60's fights...

Ali 70's would easily beat MArciano via a combination of hugging and boxing. He was just too Strong for Rocky.

Ken Norton was of course better than Ali for sure... Doesn't have any relevance for MArciano either.

Ali whooped Foreman for the whole fight. Why? Because Foreman, for all his strength, didn't have the ability to move. And Ali was inside his head before the fight ever began.

Foreman would have killed Marciano, no kidding. Kind of like he killed Frazier. Marciano was a 185 pounder.

As for Marciano being unskilled, you should refresh your memory. He was difficult to hit cleanly, and he kept coming anyway. He was able to counter and land meaningfully, whipping such talented ATG'ers as Ezzard Charles (twice) and Archie Moore. Both of these guys were older, but certainly not washed up at the time of their Marciano bouts. Both were extremely skilled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b0yHvw-vW0

[Ray Corso]

Seriously are you this dumb?
elroid.........."Yes, Henry Cooper wasted Ali that's given".........

Ali goes to London TWICE.....gives Cooper a match then a rematch;

1963 Ali vs Cooper....tko in 5 Ali wins!
1966 Ali vs Cooper....tko in 6 Ali wins!

Not sure how you think Cooper "wasted" Ali the record book shows the other way around. Fighters get knocked down from solid punches or get caught off balance it's not getting knocked down that's important it's getting back up!

Try to get the real FACTS correct sonny this is a History Section not fantasy land.

Ray

[Elroy1]

Ali whooped Foreman for the whole fight. Why? Because Foreman, for all his strength, didn't have the ability to move. And Ali was inside his head before the fight ever began.

Foreman would have killed Marciano, no kidding. Kind of like he killed Frazier. Marciano was a 185 pounder.

As for Marciano being unskilled, you should refresh your memory. He was difficult to hit cleanly, and he kept coming anyway. He was able to counter and land meaningfully, whipping such talented ATG'ers as Ezzard Charles (twice) and Archie Moore. Both of these guys were older, but certainly not washed up at the time of their Marciano bouts. Both were extremely skilled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b0yHvw-vW0

Yeah okay he has Charles, Moore, Walcott and Louis on his record and they were good for the day..

I suppose Doug Jones defeated the 60's Ali and he was comparable to say your Ezzard Charles type fighter.

But notice I already gave MArciano his solid punchers chance against this level of Ali. I merely dismissed any possible victory against Ali in his TRUE prime- the 70's, ala Foreman fight..

What you say about Ali's victory over Foreman is somewhat true but is extremely biased towards Ali.. The sheer demented fight plan of Foreman is just as much to blame for the loss as can be credited Ali for winning it, given how abysmal Ali's own plan was.

OF course I totally disagree with your claim Ali "whooped" him the whole fight. Ali was unable to even properly fight Foreman until George has punched himself out.

But sure, despite this and all the controversy around this fight I mentioned, this was Ali's best win and in my opinion, the only time in his whole career he defeated what today we might describe as a "decent opponent".

[Elroy1]

Seriously are you this dumb?
elroid.........."Yes, Henry Cooper wasted Ali that's given".........

Ali goes to London TWICE.....gives Cooper a match then a rematch;

1963 Ali vs Cooper....tko in 5 Ali wins!
1966 Ali vs Cooper....tko in 6 Ali wins!

Not sure how you think Cooper "wasted" Ali the record book shows the other way around. Fighters get knocked down from solid punches or get caught off balance it's not getting knocked down that's important it's getting back up!

Try to get the real FACTS correct sonny this is a History Section not fantasy land.

Ray

So just to recap...

Wlad Klitschko gets knocked down by 250lb Sam Peter, gets back up 3 times to win.. Chinny!

Muhammad Ali gets knocked down by a 185lb bum Cooper, uses salts and rips a glove to buy time and all that to survive... Iron chin... LOL

The irony!!

For the record, Ali is better than Cooper but Ali deserved either a KO or a DQ loss for that fight. It wouldn't fly in the modern era.

More the point you are PRAISING Ali for beating up on a 185lber with a BUMMY record!!

Yet you degrade current and recent fighters for beating up on gigantic boxers with GOOD records..

Wanna buy a bridge I am selling old man????

[Ray Corso]

.............."gigantic boxers".........................hahahaha........

Gigantic..yes! Good.........NO!

Compared to Ali Wlad is a green novice who is so one dimensional he's boring!

Good nite little fellow, I have important fish to fry in the morning your a bit to small to be enthusiastic about. Play nice your getting your butt handed to you.
Ray

[Elroy1]

.............."gigantic boxers".........................hahahaha........

Gigantic..yes! Good.........NO!

Compared to Ali Wlad is a green novice who is so one dimensional he's boring!

Good nite little fellow, I have important fish to fry in the morning your a bit to small to be enthusiastic about. Play nice your getting your butt handed to you.
Ray

Compared to Wlad.. Ali doesn't even know how to box!!

But let's not stop at the specific example of Wlad..

Let's compare Ali to what would be today his true weight class.. Cruiser!!

Today's cruisers are so fast and so athletic and so skilled.. They blow Ali completely out of the water!!

Case closed!

You expose yourself as a fool..

And you support bums!

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Compared to Wlad.. Ali doesn't even know how to box!!

But let's not stop at the specific example of Wlad..

Let's compare Ali to what would be today his true weight class.. Cruiser!!

Today's cruisers are so fast and so athletic and so skilled.. They blow Ali completely out of the water!!

Case closed!

You expose yourself as a fool..

And you support bums!

Does the cymbal playing monkey in your head ever stop?

[Joe Beamish]

I hadn't previously realized how bat-sheet crazy this poster is. I have to just bow out. I was thinking this was like a discussion. Anybody who doesn't see Ali's absolute brilliance is a waste of time to talk to. I only said Marciano in my opinion happens to be one of those few guys who could give Ali (any version of Ali, 60's or 70's) real problems and likely win the fight.

And for chrissake re-watch the Ali/Foreman fight. Ali kicked his ass the whole way.

[juggernaut666]

I hadn't previously realized how bat-sheet crazy this poster is. I have to just bow out. I was thinking this was like a discussion. Anybody who doesn't see Ali's absolute brilliance is a waste of time to talk to. I only said Marciano in my opinion happens to be one of those few guys who could give Ali (any version of Ali, 60's or 70's) real problems and likely win the fight.

And for chrissake re-watch the Ali/Foreman fight. Ali kicked his ass the whole way.

Ali did very little actually until Foreman slowed and Ali then and only then got off the ropes at about rnd 7 i believe...he won most of the rounds by foreman missing 80% of his shots and very few connecting solidly other than some that reached Alis body but mostly his arms that blocked the majority.The whole way is a myth...the fight actually strarts at rnd 7 when Ali sees Foreman barely being able to stand,he even falls over Ali when he misses a punch and without getting hit almost goes thru the ropes.