Floyd is P4P #2 ever after SRR?

[billeau2]

Mosley wasn't 40 plus years old. I guess all the "smart" boxing fans only chose this opinion after the fight because the general consensus was that it was a competitive fight and Mosley was a threat

Correct It was hindsight based exclusively on the fact that Mosley as a puncher got a chance and tagged Floyd. Anyone who had watched the Judah fight for example would have come to the conclusion that May had some problems with speed....Mosley had fast hands. People were tickled pink that Mosley buckled Floyd...period.

Look at the odds for the fight. And it was most certainly NOT competative...Do I have to recap the fight? its easy enough...rnd one Mosley and Floyd feel each other out Rnd two Mosley hits floyd with a whopper rest of fight floyd dominates.

its sad and pathetic...Floyd is incredibly skilled, though neither as fast or multidimensional as people often tout him to be....but he did pick comp that was always slightly over it. He screwed his legacy by not fighting Pac when the fight meant something. Floyd is not the defensive calibre of a Whitaker or Pep, he cannot throw combos because his so called speed is "quickness" and translates as catching the guy with superb timing and needing to get out of dodge after the punch (watch the films in slo mo)...So he is not the natural like Jones or Ali, nor the murderous puncher of a guy like Louis.... Guys like both Sugar Rays are much more complete fighters than Floyd.

Floyd is smart, the product of great trainers, smarts and perhaps superb reaction time. His punches are straight as an arrow, timed brilliantly, defensively he clinques when he needs to, will leave it at that.

But fighters like an over the hill Mosley are BS. Nobody could honestly make a case that a one dimensional guy like Mosley would have more than a lucky punch (which he got) of a chance to beat Floyd.

[theface07]

Anyone who truly thinks Mayweather is in the top 10 p4p in boxing history is either incredibly ignorant of past fighters or just plain pedestrian in terms of overall boxing knowledge. I'm willing to bet the top boxing historians in the world would have a hard time putting Money anywhere near the top 10 boxers of all time. What all these Floyd fanatics have to realize is Mayweather has controlled his destiny with sly tactics and corrupt business deals that was simply out of reach of the poor champs of the past. Because of the financial power that fighters know possess including owning their own promotion companies and having inside connections into the boxing world, there is much less enforcement by the boxing organizations that in the past would prevent a self-made fighter such as Mayweather from avoiding getting into the ring with opponents that might have a chance to win.
Furthermore, Floyd has nowhere near the amount of quality bouts under his belt that the greatest of all time had. Even the best fighters Floyd has faced were either past their prime or up and comers without enough experience (ie. Canelo Alvarez). If Floyd was even half as busy as the best boxers of all time, his record would be littered with losses. Even Muhammad Ali lost against people like Joe Frazier & Ken Norton because he fought whoever was put in front of him and many people consider him the greatest of all time. In truth, George Foreman and Larry Holmes could stake a claim at being as good as Ali during their prime simply because they destroyed the bulk of opponents they fought and were much more busy fighting elite boxers during the 70's when they dominated.
A lot of modern fans of sports in general, as well as film, music and other forms of entertainment are very ignorant of the past and tend only to consider what is modern and current.
If Mayweather worshippers actually looked through the boxing record books to see how many pro fights the true greats such as Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis & Archie Moore had against solid opponents, they would realize that their work rate was beyond anything Mayweather would ever come close to reaching.
Floyd certainly has a lot of boxing skill and is typically well trained and prepared for all the title fights he has been involved in. Unfortunately, his style is ultimately a total bore and creates none of the excitement in the ring that past champions have achieved. Sure he wins all his fights but his record is more indicitive of his cherry-picking opponents and making every effort to only fight the bare minimum to keep himself atop the p4p rankings.
Floyd Mayweather's rise to the top of the boxing world is reflective of the corruption that exists in the entertainment business and the apparent ease of which corporate sell outs with huge egos and no conscience achieve serious fame and fortune with a bare mimimum of effort and often questionable talent.

[joseph5620]

Anyone who truly thinks Mayweather is in the top 10 p4p in boxing history is either incredibly ignorant of past fighters or just plain pedestrian in terms of overall boxing knowledge. I'm willing to bet the top boxing historians in the world would have a hard time putting Money anywhere near the top 10 boxers of all time. What all these Floyd fanatics have to realize is Mayweather has controlled his destiny with sly tactics and corrupt business deals that was simply out of reach of the poor champs of the past. Because of the financial power that fighters know possess including owning their own promotion companies and having inside connections into the boxing world, there is much less enforcement by the boxing organizations that in the past would prevent a self-made fighter such as Mayweather from avoiding getting into the ring with opponents that might have a chance to win.
Furthermore, Floyd has nowhere near the amount of quality bouts under his belt that the greatest of all time had. Even the best fighters Floyd has faced were either past their prime or up and comers without enough experience (ie. Canelo Alvarez). If Floyd was even half as busy as the best boxers of all time, his record would be littered with losses. Even Muhammad Ali lost against people like Joe Frazier & Ken Norton because he fought whoever was put in front of him and many people consider him the greatest of all time. In truth, George Foreman and Larry Holmes could stake a claim at being as good as Ali during their prime simply because they destroyed the bulk of opponents they fought and were much more busy fighting elite boxers during the 70's when they dominated.
A lot of modern fans of sports in general, as well as film, music and other forms of entertainment are very ignorant of the past and tend only to consider what is modern and current.
If Mayweather worshippers actually looked through the boxing record books to see how many pro fights the true greats such as Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis & Archie Moore had against solid opponents, they would realize that their work rate was beyond anything Mayweather would ever come close to reaching.
Floyd certainly has a lot of boxing skill and is typically well trained and prepared for all the title fights he has been involved in. Unfortunately, his style is ultimately a total bore and creates none of the excitement in the ring that past champions have achieved. Sure he wins all his fights but his record is more indicitive of his cherry-picking opponents and making every effort to only fight the bare minimum to keep himself atop the p4p rankings.
Floyd Mayweather's rise to the top of the boxing world is reflective of the corruption that exists in the entertainment business and the apparent ease of which corporate sell outs with huge egos and no conscience achieve serious fame and fortune with a bare mimimum of effort and often questionable talent.

Can you elaborate on the " elite" fighters Holmes was beating and destroying to make a claim to rank with Ali?

Better yet, tell us why Holmes never fought Pinklon Thomas, Greg Page, Dokes, or rematched Mike Weaver or Tim Witherspoon?

Holmes is an all time great but I can shred his resume as easily as you can Mayweather's.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

P4P is mythical. Whitaker being far past his prime is factual. For you to describe it in any other way is pure fiction. Whitaker was showing major slipping and getting hit more than he ever had. Rewrite history if you choose, but facts are facts. Don't believe me? Watch Whitaker in his last three fights before Oscar. Then you'll know why Oscar chose him over Quartey or Trinidad at the time.

Why was Oscar favored to beat the " number three pound for pound" Whitaker?

For you to hype fighters like Ruelas, Leija, but downplay Mosley,Canelo,Hatton, or Corrales speaks for itself.

I never hyped ruelas and leija,, i believe i linked leija to manfredy in terms of importance,,,
mosley, canelo hatton, corrales gets compared to tito, shane ike, hopkins, vargas, floyd, manny,,,, now tell me which group is better

No, it really isn't the end of it when you offer nothing but "He didn't fight Pacquiao".

Robinson didn't fight Burley. I won't even get into Tunney but that doesn't seem to affect their all time rankings with most people.

You are right and wrong,, yes no burley fight, but SRR did fight pretty much everyone else and fought them multilpe times,, its like saying Lennox lewis never fought micheal moorer, or pernell never fought camacho,, some fights slip thru the cracks, but as long as the fighter fights top notch guys and takes big fights its cool,, you cant fight everyone but you can fight the big fights which is something floyd hasnt done

Mosley wasn't 40 plus years old. I guess all the "smart" boxing fans only chose this opinion after the fight because the general consensus was that it was a competitive fight and Mosley was a threat

If you thought shane stood a chance vs floyd, then you really cant analyze boxing very well,, sure shane can beat come forward fighters like margs and mayorga, but anyone that really understands boxing knew that mosely has no legs to track down floyd, or even mora

Can you elaborate on the " elite" fighters Holmes was beating and destroying to make a claim to rank with Ali?

Better yet, tell us why Holmes never fought Pinklon Thomas, Greg Page, or rematched Mike Weaver or Tim Witherspoon?

Holmes is an all time great but I can shred his resume as easily as you can Mayweather's.

like i said earlier,, some fights dont happen but for the most part holmes fought everyone on the block,, yes he didnt fight pink or page, just like holyfield didnt fight tua or morrison,,, and to complain that he didnt rematch guys,, lol,,,, He did fight them, just cause their was no rematch doesnt matter at all,,, holmes earned his way to the top and took on pretty much everyone,, Even in his 40s holmes was throwing down with the best like mercer, holy, mccall

[joseph5620]

I never hyped ruelas and leija,, i believe i linked leija to manfredy in terms of importance,,,
mosley, canelo hatton, corrales gets compared to tito, shane ike, hopkins, vargas, floyd, manny,,,, now tell me which group is better


You are right and wrong,, yes no burley fight, but SRR did fight pretty much everyone else and fought them multilpe times,, its like saying Lennox lewis never fought micheal moorer, or pernell never fought camacho,, some fights slip thru the cracks, but as long as the fighter fights top notch guys and takes big fights its cool,, you cant fight everyone but you can fight the big fights which is something floyd hasnt done


If you thought shane stood a chance vs floyd, then you really cant analyze boxing very well,, sure shane can beat come forward fighters like margs and mayorga, but anyone that really understands boxing knew that mosely has no legs to track down floyd, or even mora


like i said earlier,, some fights dont happen but for the most part holmes fought everyone on the block,, yes he didnt fight pink or page, just like holyfield didnt fight tua or morrison,,, and to complain that he didnt rematch guys,, lol,,,, He did fight them, just cause their was no rematch doesnt matter at all,,, holmes earned his way to the top and took on pretty much everyone,, Even in his 40s holmes was throwing down with the best like mercer, holy, mccall

No Holmes did NOT fight everyone.That's absolutely, positively, not true.Why would he not rematch Weaver in a unification fight after the first fight where Weaver gave him fits ? Or Witherspoon after a very close, controversial fight?

If Mayweather didn't rematch Castillo would you give him the same pass? Of course not.

By the way I picked Mayweather to beat Mosley. But that pick was based on his skills. Not because Mosley was "shot."

If you think Canelo is not a good fighter then you can't analyze fighters very well.

Mayweather has had plenty of big fights. For you to claim he has not had any is absolutely ridiculous.

Another thing, Mosley did not have to "chase" Mayweather who stood in the pocket against Mosley and backed Mosley up during numerous parts of that fight.

That is an inaccurate description of the fight.

[soul_survivor]

He probably wouldn't make my top twenty either. But the way so many boxing fans downplay his accomplishments and skill has gotten ridiculous.

I've watched enough boxing in my lifetime to know that he is a great fighter and one of the most skilled I've every seen.

I don't rate him over people like Robinson or Leonard because they have better fighters on their resume. I think people who do that are equally ridiculous.

But downplaying Mayweathers accomplishments and skills has become more of a case of personal dislike for a lot of people rather than facts.

90% of comments on this thread are not downplaying Floyd's accomplishment, he is great, a second tier ATG and a first ballot HOFer. No one can or should deny that. But he is not top 2 P4P. It's as simple as that.

[billeau2]

Anyone who truly thinks Mayweather is in the top 10 p4p in boxing history is either incredibly ignorant of past fighters or just plain pedestrian in terms of overall boxing knowledge. I'm willing to bet the top boxing historians in the world would have a hard time putting Money anywhere near the top 10 boxers of all time. What all these Floyd fanatics have to realize is Mayweather has controlled his destiny with sly tactics and corrupt business deals that was simply out of reach of the poor champs of the past. Because of the financial power that fighters know possess including owning their own promotion companies and having inside connections into the boxing world, there is much less enforcement by the boxing organizations that in the past would prevent a self-made fighter such as Mayweather from avoiding getting into the ring with opponents that might have a chance to win.
Furthermore, Floyd has nowhere near the amount of quality bouts under his belt that the greatest of all time had. Even the best fighters Floyd has faced were either past their prime or up and comers without enough experience (ie. Canelo Alvarez). If Floyd was even half as busy as the best boxers of all time, his record would be littered with losses. Even Muhammad Ali lost against people like Joe Frazier & Ken Norton because he fought whoever was put in front of him and many people consider him the greatest of all time. In truth, George Foreman and Larry Holmes could stake a claim at being as good as Ali during their prime simply because they destroyed the bulk of opponents they fought and were much more busy fighting elite boxers during the 70's when they dominated.
A lot of modern fans of sports in general, as well as film, music and other forms of entertainment are very ignorant of the past and tend only to consider what is modern and current.
If Mayweather worshippers actually looked through the boxing record books to see how many pro fights the true greats such as Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis & Archie Moore had against solid opponents, they would realize that their work rate was beyond anything Mayweather would ever come close to reaching.
Floyd certainly has a lot of boxing skill and is typically well trained and prepared for all the title fights he has been involved in. Unfortunately, his style is ultimately a total bore and creates none of the excitement in the ring that past champions have achieved. Sure he wins all his fights but his record is more indicitive of his cherry-picking opponents and making every effort to only fight the bare minimum to keep himself atop the p4p rankings.
Floyd Mayweather's rise to the top of the boxing world is reflective of the corruption that exists in the entertainment business and the apparent ease of which corporate sell outs with huge egos and no conscience achieve serious fame and fortune with a bare mimimum of effort and often questionable talent.

"A true bore" as you say because of a couple of things: Fighters today do not know how to fight inside. Mayweather can clinque and stop the action on demand. Also, Mayweather is so safety oriented that he throws his one punch and immediately angles, exists away so there is never an exchange. I don't fault Mayweather for this....if he fought Ward for example he would get exposed on the inside game, but he won't will he? haha.

Good post. Your absolutely right about manipulating the opponent selection, the klits are the absolute worse in this regard... Sheesh! You can see such a major variation in comp between Lewis and Vlad/Vitalie much less when the division was strong for the big guys. Yet the Klits have everyone convinced they are fighting the best....yeah right.

I know it is a clique but Money May had his chance. If he had fought Pac he could have at least partially rectified the situation.

Nice Post

[Sugar Adam Ali]

No Holmes did NOT fight everyone.That's absolutely, positively, not true.Why would he not rematch Weaver in a unification fight after the first fight where Weaver gave him fits ? Or Witherspoon after a very close, controversial fight?

If Mayweather didn't rematch Castillo would you give him the same pass? Of course not.you make a valid point there, but overall holmes fought everyone

By the way I picked Mayweather to beat Mosley. But that pick was based on his skills. Not because Mosley was "shot."
skills or shot, either way mosely had a punchers chance that is all
If you think Canelo is not a good fighter than you can't analyze fighters very well.this is so funny, canelo would get his arse kicked by mccallum, norris, winky, vargas, oscar, etc.. he is not very good at the top level, the dude struggled vs rhodes and hatton, canelo is nothing but hype, decent fighter but he will be exposed soon enough, just wait til he fights lara, molina,any of the middleweights,, canelo looks good vs punching bags like lopez or cintron or baldomir,, that does not make you a great fighter,, canelo is just like lucien bute, good fighter but will get exposed at the higher levels like froch and mayweather have already proved

Mayweather has had plenty of big fights. For you to claim he has not had any is absolutely ridiculous. what big fights are these may i ask,, hatton at 147, corrales,, look at srl with benetiz, duran twice, hearns and aybule in about 2 years time, and oscar with ike, tito, shane, pernell, vargas, hopkins, floyd, manny,, Did you think gatti, baldomir, ghost or ortiz are big threats, that canelo was this great warrior,, if those are big fights to you, then nothing much i can say to help you

Another thing, Mosley did not have to "chase" Mayweather who stood in the pocket against Mosley and backed Mosley up during numerous parts of that fight.
yeah because mosley was shot with no legs,, how many good performance has shane had since???? **** even canelo and cano have stood in front of mosely,, the dude is done at the top level, he just got lucky that margs was on top and margs is very easy to hit,, shane can still crack at that time, i will give him that

That is an inaccurate description of the fight.

honestly if you think floyd is an ATG top 20 then more power to you,, there always has to be suckers to get hyped for a canelo or gatti fight

[joseph5620]

90% of comments on this thread are not downplaying Floyd's accomplishment, he is great, a second tier ATG and a first ballot HOFer. No one can or should deny that. But he is not top 2 P4P. It's as simple as that.

Of course he's not top two pound for pound.

Now you can show me where I ever made that claim.

[joseph5620]

honestly if you think floyd is an ATG top 20 then more power to you,, there always has to be suckers to get hyped for a canelo or gatti fight

LOL please show me where I said Floyd was top twenty? I already stated my views on that. You should read them.

My issue in this was downplaying what he has done in such a biased way. It has gotten ridiculous honestly.