Floyd is P4P #2 ever after SRR?

[IronDanHamza]

He'd been in training for another fight, you deny the insinuation that he was out of shape so why is the weeks notice so relevant then? Calzaghe also had only one week to approach the fight as he was preparing to fight a different opponent unless you think Eubank's style was similar to Collins's? Two years before Eubank fought a strong fight against Collins, sayng he hadn't won a legitimate fight in years is such a misleading thing to say. He wasn't ranked because he had moved up in weight plus he'd been fairly inactive, something which I personally don't think is the weakness that people say it is, particularly not at the back end of a career. After the Calzaghe loss Eubank fought two strong fights at cruiserweight against a more natural cruiserweight of high quality. What does saying that Eubank was 'well passed his best' really mean? That he was no longer a high quality opponent? If that is your contention then you are definitely wrong.

Because it isn't just about being in shape.

It's about preparing mentally, game plans, certain things you need to work on. All in just one week and whilst in shape he'd still likely have to cut a little weight considering he was on weight for 175 not 168. Sparring, had he even had any sparring with a southpaw? Just not a good idea just no time to work on anything for the fight.

Calzaghe's in a different position because he's young and fresh, Eubank was at the end of his career so he's not in a position where taking that kind of fight on a weeks notice is a good idea. Yeah, he had the experience on his side but still.

I don't think fighting a well passed prime Eubank who hadn't looked impressive in years who had a week to prepare for the fight is a "damn good version" of him. I just don't think that's accurate.

Plus, Joe was on weight unlike Eubank which is another thing to add.



How is it misleading? It's a fact.

When was the last time he won a legitimate fight in 1997?

And I don't consider moving up two weight classes and having some decent losing efforts to mean anything either.

When did he start looking awful, the two years previous to the Calzaghe fight when he lost a split decision to Collins who was one of the best super middleweights there has been?

Euabnk was looking bad as early as 1993-1994. People considered him passed his best for the second Benn fight.

Looked awful against Close, Rocchigiani, Schommer.

Didn't look good against Wharton either IMO despite the contrary belief that that was a good performance. Certainly not in my mind.

Definitely well beyond his best for the Collins fights.

By 1997 he hadn't won an actual meaningful fight in Lord knows how long and didn't win one again.

Most definitely not a "high quality opponent". Far from it.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Because it isn't just about being in shape.

It's about preparing mentally, game plans, certain things you need to work on. All in just one week and whilst in shape he'd still likely have to cut a little weight considering he was on weight for 175 not 168. Not a good idea.

How is it misleading? It's a fact.

When was the last time he won a legitimate fight in 1997?

And I don't consider moving up two weight classes and having some decent losing efforts to mean anything either.





Euabnk was looking bad as early as 1993-1994. People considered him passed his best for the second Benn fight.

Looked awful against Close, Rocchigiani, Schommer.

Didn't look good against Wharton either IMO despite the contrary belief that that was a good performance. Certainly not in my mind.

Definitely well beyond his best for the Collins fights.

By 1997 he hadn't won an actual meaningful fight in Lord knows how long and didn't win one again.

Most definitely not a "high quality opponent". Far from it.

So Irondan,,,

Is jhonny gonzalez on your p4p list right now,, because that would be a double standard to put mosely on when he beat margs and not jhonny gonzalez,,,, that would be a major double standard,,
You said yourself that if you stop a guy on p4p list, that should garner you attention on p4p lists,,

but i know you just feel for sugar shane hype, and forgot that he hadnt won a big fight in about a decade

[IronDanHamza]

So Irondan,,,

Is jhonny gonzalez on your p4p list right now,, because that would be a double standard to put mosely on when he beat margs and not jhonny gonzalez,,,, that would be a major double standard,,
You said yourself that if you stop a guy on p4p list, that should garner you attention on p4p lists,,

but i know you just feel for sugar shane hype, and forgot that he hadnt won a big fight in about a decade

I've purposely not answered your question because I've answered it already yet you keep asking me the same question despite me answering it.

If you want the answer of that question go and look back at my answer as to why Jhonny Gonzalez isn't in my P4P list as opposed to Shane Mosley.

And Shane won a big fight in his previous fight.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I've purposely not answered your question because I've answered it already yet you keep asking me the same question despite me answering it.

If you want the answer of that question go and look back at my answer as to why Jhonny Gonzalez isn't in my P4P list as opposed to Shane Mosley.

And Shane won a big fight in his previous fight.

I did go back and look, but cant find it,,,

shane beat margs,, jhonny beat mares,,, what is the difference,,,

What is this big fight that mosely won prior to margs,,, unless you mean the big fight was margs,, which in case makes it the same scenario,, shane beat margs, great win,, jhonny beat mares,, great win

I dont see the difference, only your double standard,,,

does beating mayorga in a close fight, and losing to cotto make you a p4p candidate,,

[IronDanHamza]

I did go back and look, but cant find it,,,

shane beat margs,, jhonny beat mares,,, what is the difference,,,

What is this big fight that mosely won prior to margs,,, unless you mean the big fight was margs,, which in case makes it the same scenario,, shane beat margs, great win,, jhonny beat mares,, great win

I dont see the difference, only your double standard,,,

does beating mayorga in a close fight, and losing to cotto make you a p4p candidate,,

Mosley has a alot more pedigree than Gonzalez. He's a much better fighter, for starters.

Dominating and stopping Margarito is much more impressive than catching Mares cold.

Mosley also was looking a lot better in fights prior to Margarito than Gonzalez was.

Therefore, that's why I wouldn't have Gonzalez on my P4P list and would have Mosley. Gonzalez is probably not far from the P4P list at this point either though.

That said, if someone were to beat Gonzalez now that would be a very impressive win much like beating Mosley at the time Mayweather did.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Gonzalez doesn't have the pedigree Shane has and isn't as good as Shane was then.

And someone beating Gonazlez now would be a very good win.

Also, catching Mares cold is less impressive than domianting and stopping Margarito.

ok, i did find it, slipped past me the first time,, but its a total double standard,

pedigree of shane,, yeah he was good till 2000,, then didnt win a big fight till margs,,,

how can you say shane was p4p elite in 09-10,,, he had one big win in a decade,,
He had lost by a wide margin to forrest twice and winky twice, and lost a competitive fight with cotto,, got a gift vs oscar in the rematch,,,

his wins were vs collazo, shot vargas twice, shot mayorga and he struggled with mayorga,,,


And so yes beating gonzalez now would be a nice win,, just as beating shane like floyd did,, nice win,,,,,,, Not a great legacy win vs some alleged p4p fighter,, just a good win,,,


I cant believe people hype up an old shane-- basically what your saying is that shane has a big name and hype so you consider him p4p after margs, totally ignoring the fact that he had lost vs every other top fighter for a decade, and struggled with the likes of raul marquez and mayorga, both of which were way past primes.

By your logic, if cotto beats serg he would be p4p elite because he has a good "pedigree" and would ignore the fact that cotto had lost to margs, manny, floyd, trout in the previous years-- just because of "pedigree"

and what the hell is "pedigree" does that mean you have a big name and you won meaningful fights like a decade ago,,

There is absolutely no ev

[broblin]

No Floyd is not #2 P4P all-time, that is laughable. At best he's top 40 all-time. If he had fought and beat Manny Pacquiao when both were in their primes you could have made a case (and only a case, it wouldn't be for certain) of Floyd being in the top 25. Since he never did, and has only had a few real challenges in his career, to me he's an elite fighter who coasts his way through most fights because the majority of opponents that he chooses to fight are lesser than him.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Mosley has a alot more pedigree than Gonzalez. He's a much better fighter, for starters.

Dominating and stopping Margarito is much more impressive than catching Mares cold.

Mosley also was looking a lot better in fights prior to Margarito than Gonzalez was.

Therefore, that's why I wouldn't have Gonzalez on my P4P list and would have Mosley. Gonzalez is probably not far from the P4P list at this point either though.

That said, if someone were to beat Gonzalez now that would be a very impressive win much like beating Mosley at the time Mayweather did.

What fights was mosley looking good in,, he struggled vs mayorga,, lost to cotto, beat a shot vargas twice,, beat collazo,,,, before that he was getting schooled by winky and forrest,,,

What fights was he looking good in now,,

and no way is jhonny gonzalez anywhere near a p4p list, I wouldnt have him in my top 30 right now,,, Good fighter but nothing special or elite about him,, just like shane in 2010

and mosely beat a walking punching bag, and jhonny beat an undefeated prime multiple division champ who had been fighting the absolute best around his weight,,

[Sugar Adam Ali]

No Floyd is not #2 P4P all-time, that is laughable. At best he's top 40 all-time. If he had fought and beat Manny Pacquiao when both were in their primes you could have made a case (and only a case, it wouldn't be for certain) of Floyd being in the top 25. Since he never did, and has only had a few real challenges in his career, to me he's an elite fighter who coasts his way through most fights because the majority of opponents that he chooses to fight are lesser than him.

bravo,, you nailed it,,, had he beaten manny, and shane and cotto in 07-08 floyd would def be alot higher, i would probably have him top 20

[IronDanHamza]

What fights was mosley looking good in,, he struggled vs mayorga,, lost to cotto, beat a shot vargas twice,, beat collazo,,,, before that he was getting schooled by winky and forrest,,,

What fights was he looking good in now,,

and no way is jhonny gonzalez anywhere near a p4p list, I wouldnt have him in my top 30 right now,,, Good fighter but nothing special or elite about him,, just like shane in 2010

and mosely beat a walking punching bag, and jhonny beat an undefeated prime multiple division champ who had been fighting the absolute best around his weight,,

Mosley struggled but knocked out Mayorga, not a good performance but his fight prior to that he had a very close fight with P4P Cotto and the Collazo win was solid aswell. Much much much better that what Gonzalez had done prior.

Mosley in 2009 is just much better than Gonzalez is now in general.

Beating Margarito like he did is much better than beating Mares like he did. Albeit both very impressive.

Gonzalez is more an exception to the rule because he's really not been at the top level for a while whereas Mosley was atleast competing at the top level I always thought that Mares wasn't really Top P4P myself though.