Rocky Marciano is very overrated IMO

[ShoulderRoll]

- - Golly, gee! Ali with substantial height, weight, and reach over Joe, but you'd be surprised how many unthinkingly and emotionally pick Joe over Ali.

Back to the chalkboard to figure overratedness yet again...

Only a 9 lbs. weight advantage. Come up with a different excuse.


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[QueensburyRules]

Only a 9 lbs. weight advantage. Come up with a different excuse.


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- - Yet Ali fans repeated height, weight, and reach as a mantra greatest until now they starting to die out.

As soon as old salts at IBRO thinned, Ali elevated over Louis for the first time.

Don't need a crystal ball seer to see Furry gonna supplant Ali next go round 10 years from now and so on and so forth ad infinitum...

[Willow The Wisp]

- - Yet Ali fans repeated height, weight, and reach as a mantra greatest until now they starting to die out.

As soon as old salts at IBRO thinned, Ali elevated over Louis for the first time.

Don't need a crystal ball seer to see Furry gonna supplant Ali next go round 10 years from now and so on and so forth ad infinitum...

Why sure. To me, Ali was the Gratest. To my Father it was Joe Louis, and for my Grandfather it was clearly Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey. I Imagine that my Great grandfather would have extolled the virtues of Sullivan or Jeffries. My Son prefers Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis. For the International Boxing Research group, the "Research" sheds more trans-era light on the subject, and there is methodology employed.

[HOUDINI563]

Watch this and closely note Cus’s initial comments:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EXQLmz-IRdU

[HOUDINI563]

Fury WILL NEVER be rated alongside Ali or Louis. He has beaten no one, he is at least 35 lbs overweight with very limited abilities. Watch as Usyk takes him apart.

[ShoulderRoll]

"Marciano, who has progressed as far as he ever will technically, fights out of a crouch, throws a left hook and belts in the clinches. But it is not the trip-hammer attack of a Dempsey...

The ability to back-track helped me when I fought Dempsey, and it helped Tunney. That's why I think that even Jersey Joe Walcott would be a better match for Dempsey than Marciano. Dempsey's reflexes were so much faster than those of the Brockton strong boy that it isn't even funny.

What I have been saying is no reflection on Marciano personally, just on the state of boxing today. I think the millions of newcomers who are watching the sport on television should be aware of it.

Take, for instance, the matter of sparring partners. We used to be able to hire as many as 25 sparring partners when we trained for a heavyweight fight. Marciano could hardly sc**** up enough sparring partners to sharpen him up for his last fight with Roland LaStarza. They weren't very high-class either. Sparring partners, in the past, often became heavyweight contenders themselves. There's nothing like that now...

I still travel quite a bit throughout the country and whenever I step into a gym, I look for a promising heavyweight. There might be a million dollars to be made with one, but conditions have changed. Too many of the boxers start at about 22 nowadays. We used to be boxing in boys' clubs at 16. There were dozens of crack heavyweights around. Can you name me five today?"

--Jack Sharkey, 1954



https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1489...mparing-rocky/

[Bundana]

"Marciano, who has progressed as far as he ever will technically, fights out of a crouch, throws a left hook and belts in the clinches. But it is not the trip-hammer attack of a Dempsey...

The ability to back-track helped me when I fought Dempsey, and it helped Tunney. That's why I think that even Jersey Joe Walcott would be a better match for Dempsey than Marciano. Dempsey's reflexes were so much faster than those of the Brockton strong boy that it isn't even funny.

What I have been saying is no reflection on Marciano personally, just on the state of boxing today. I think the millions of newcomers who are watching the sport on television should be aware of it.

Take, for instance, the matter of sparring partners. We used to be able to hire as many as 25 sparring partners when we trained for a heavyweight fight. Marciano could hardly sc**** up enough sparring partners to sharpen him up for his last fight with Roland LaStarza. They weren't very high-class either. Sparring partners, in the past, often became heavyweight contenders themselves. There's nothing like that now...

I still travel quite a bit throughout the country and whenever I step into a gym, I look for a promising heavyweight. There might be a million dollars to be made with one, but conditions have changed. Too many of the boxers start at about 22 nowadays. We used to be boxing in boys' clubs at 16. There were dozens of crack heavyweights around. Can you name me five today?"

--Jack Sharkey, 1954



https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1489...mparing-rocky/

Always fun to see oldtimers claim, that boxing isn't what it used to be!

[JAB5239]

Always fun to see oldtimers claim, that boxing isn't what it used to be!

It was a fun read though.

[Ivich]

Louis was knocked out by Marciano. Marciano was more dominant, Louis has a better resume. Simple.

All you're doing is glorifying a period in a man's career while excusing other periods. Louis did not dominate the division the entire time he fought, Marciano did. Who had better competition hardly speaks to who dominated. Who lasted longer only makes excuses for not knowing when your time is up. All that means to me is you're saying Marciano was able to absolutely dominate his division because there was no one who could beat them and when he aged to the point where there was he retired. To that I'd say yes.

Jim Jeffries was dominant, defeated all logical contenders, retired, returned, lost to Johnson. It happens, he was very close to having dominated his entire run but then got talked into giving that away. Louis isn't even Jim in terms of domination. He lost on the early end and late end of his career and no I'm not terribly impressed by Schmeling, Carnera, or the Baers.

No Jeffries refused to defend against black challengers. all he did was defeat the logical White defenders.
Nino Valdes was the No1 challenger in1953 and 54.Marciano did not defend against him.

[Willie Pep 229]

"Marciano, who has progressed as far as he ever will technically, fights out of a crouch, throws a left hook and belts in the clinches. But it is not the trip-hammer attack of a Dempsey...

The ability to back-track helped me when I fought Dempsey, and it helped Tunney. That's why I think that even Jersey Joe Walcott would be a better match for Dempsey than Marciano. Dempsey's reflexes were so much faster than those of the Brockton strong boy that it isn't even funny.

What I have been saying is no reflection on Marciano personally, just on the state of boxing today. I think the millions of newcomers who are watching the sport on television should be aware of it.

Take, for instance, the matter of sparring partners. We used to be able to hire as many as 25 sparring partners when we trained for a heavyweight fight. Marciano could hardly sc**** up enough sparring partners to sharpen him up for his last fight with Roland LaStarza. They weren't very high-class either. Sparring partners, in the past, often became heavyweight contenders themselves. There's nothing like that now...

I still travel quite a bit throughout the country and whenever I step into a gym, I look for a promising heavyweight. There might be a million dollars to be made with one, but conditions have changed. Too many of the boxers start at about 22 nowadays. We used to be boxing in boys' clubs at 16. There were dozens of crack heavyweights around. Can you name me five today?"

--Jack Sharkey, 1954



https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1489...mparing-rocky/

Have we ever heard a recently retired fighter praise the competition or the 'state of the game' of the next generation of great fighters?

No, we never hear that.

All fighters thought their period was the toughest.

I'm a big Dempsey fan and as much as I would like to embrace his assessment, I won't.

In any era, the recently retired fighter is the worst possible source for evaluating the current state of boxing.

P.S. Can't we look at the 1970s and see a host of would be contenders and champions acting as sparing partners? E.g Holmes; Ellis; Maybe I'm wrong but that dearth of sparing partners remark, seems questionable to me.