Rocky Marciano is very overrated IMO

[Marchegiano]

Louis lost against better versions of the best fighters Rocky beat. I don't think that even arguable. As for Schmeling, I would say he was much better than the the LaStarza Rocky beat (many thought he lost). So who was more dominant and against better comp?

And again, I prefer to look at an entire career and against who. Just a matter of opinion.

Louis was knocked out by Marciano. Marciano was more dominant, Louis has a better resume. Simple.

All you're doing is glorifying a period in a man's career while excusing other periods. Louis did not dominate the division the entire time he fought, Marciano did. Who had better competition hardly speaks to who dominated. Who lasted longer only makes excuses for not knowing when your time is up. All that means to me is you're saying Marciano was able to absolutely dominate his division because there was no one who could beat them and when he aged to the point where there was he retired. To that I'd say yes.

Jim Jeffries was dominant, defeated all logical contenders, retired, returned, lost to Johnson. It happens, he was very close to having dominated his entire run but then got talked into giving that away. Louis isn't even Jim in terms of domination. He lost on the early end and late end of his career and no I'm not terribly impressed by Schmeling, Carnera, or the Baers.

[QueensburyRules]

Louis was knocked out by Marciano. Marciano was more dominant, Louis has a better resume. Simple.

All you're doing is glorifying a period in a man's career while excusing other periods. Louis did not dominate the division the entire time he fought, Marciano did. Who had better competition hardly speaks to who dominated. Who lasted longer only makes excuses for not knowing when your time is up. All that means to me is you're saying Marciano was able to absolutely dominate his division because there was no one who could beat them and when he aged to the point where there was he retired. To that I'd say yes.

Jim Jeffries was dominant, defeated all logical contenders, retired, returned, lost to Johnson. It happens, he was very close to having dominated his entire run but then got talked into giving that away. Louis isn't even Jim in terms of domination. He lost on the early end and late end of his career and no I'm not terribly impressed by Schmeling, Carnera, or the Baers.

- - Math illiterate, eh?

Joe 25 defenses spread over 12 years.
Rocky 6 defenses spread over 4 years

[JAB5239]

Louis was knocked out by Marciano. Marciano was more dominant, Louis has a better resume. Simple.

All you're doing is glorifying a period in a man's career while excusing other periods. Louis did not dominate the division the entire time he fought, Marciano did. Who had better competition hardly speaks to who dominated. Who lasted longer only makes excuses for not knowing when your time is up. All that means to me is you're saying Marciano was able to absolutely dominate his division because there was no one who could beat them and when he aged to the point where there was he retired. To that I'd say yes.

Jim Jeffries was dominant, defeated all logical contenders, retired, returned, lost to Johnson. It happens, he was very close to having dominated his entire run but then got talked into giving that away. Louis isn't even Jim in terms of domination. He lost on the early end and late end of his career and no I'm not terribly impressed by Schmeling, Carnera, or the Baers.

I stopped reading after the first sentence. Saying Marciano was more dominant because he knocked old man Louis out that was only fighting because the IRS screwed him, well that's all I needed to see to stop taking your opinion on this seriously.

[JAB5239]

- - Math illiterate, eh?

Joe 25 defenses spread over 12 years.
Rocky 6 defenses spread over 4 years

When me and Queenie agree on something you know you're wrong.

[Willow The Wisp]

There are many paths to greatness. That is what Ive taken from the divergent opinions here. In any event, the thread title itself is a non starter.

[Willie Pep 229]

I stopped reading after the first sentence. Saying Marciano was more dominant because he knocked old man Louis out that was only fighting because the IRS screwed him, well that's all I needed to see to stop taking your opinion on this seriously.

IRS didn't screw Joe Louis, his manager Johnny Roxborough and his Promoter Uncle Mike Jacobs screwed him. The War Department and the IRS tried to get him out of debt in 1942 but Roxborough and Jacobs screwed the whole thing up.

The whole thing being Louis-Conn II in October 1942.

Louis (Louis's people actually) were actually tax cheats and this was at a time when the common man was not only being told to put his life at risk to save the world, but 1942 was the first year the income tax had reached the working man's salary, appearing as a 'with holding tax' applied to his paycheck.

It was important to national moral and our committment to equality, in a time of war, that the wealthy paid their taxes.

The United State government did not need Joe Louis in tax debt. That situation wasn't good for anybody. They (War Department and IRS) tried hard to get Louis an out, but his people were incapable of not stealing from the proceeds.

If interested --> an extended essay with details by me.

http://perno.com/history/louis%20and%20taxes.html

[JAB5239]

IRS didn't screw Joe Louis, his manager Johnny Roxborough and his Promoter Uncle Mike Jacobs screwed him. The War Department and the IRS tried to get him out of debt in 1942 but Roxborough and Jacobs screwed the whole thing up.

The whole thing being Louis-Conn II in October 1942.

Louis (Louis's people actually) were actually tax cheats and this was at a time when the common man was not only being told to put his life at risk to save the world, but 1942 was the first year the income tax had reached the working man's salary, appearing as a 'with holding tax' applied to his paycheck.

It was important to national moral and our committment to equality, in a time of war, that the wealthy paid their taxes.

The United State government did not need Joe Louis in tax debt. That situation wasn't good for anybody. They (War Department and IRS) tried hard to get Louis an out, but his people were incapable of not stealing from the proceeds.

If interested --> an extended essay with details by me.

http://perno.com/history/louis%20and%20taxes.html

What a great piece of information!! Thank for sharing.

[QueensburyRules]

IRS didn't screw Joe Louis, his manager Johnny Roxborough and his Promoter Uncle Mike Jacobs screwed him. The War Department and the IRS tried to get him out of debt in 1942 but Roxborough and Jacobs screwed the whole thing up.

The whole thing being Louis-Conn II in October 1942.

Louis (Louis's people actually) were actually tax cheats and this was at a time when the common man was not only being told to put his life at risk to save the world, but 1942 was the first year the income tax had reached the working man's salary, appearing as a 'with holding tax' applied to his paycheck.

It was important to national moral and our committment to equality, in a time of war, that the wealthy paid their taxes.

The United State government did not need Joe Louis in tax debt. That situation wasn't good for anybody. They (War Department and IRS) tried hard to get Louis an out, but his people were incapable of not stealing from the proceeds.

If interested --> an extended essay with details by me.

http://perno.com/history/louis%20and%20taxes.html

- - Thanks, Pep, but I have to think somewhere between IRS and the US government and Rox/Jacobs a solution could be found.

Could've been something as simple as a Presidential pardon of tax liabilities, ie outgoing prez Harry Truman who held several conferences with Joe concerning the integration of the military by his last years of 1948-49.

[ShoulderRoll]

Just ask who would win between prime Joe Frazier and prime Rocky Marciano and you'll see the overratedness.

Joe has the biggest win between the two (against Ali in the Fight of the Century) AND he would have a good 15-20 lbs weight advantage over the Rock as well.

But you'd be surprised how many people unthinkingly and emotionally pick Marciano by knockout.

[QueensburyRules]

Just ask who would win between prime Joe Frazier and prime Rocky Marciano and you'll see the overratedness.

Joe has the biggest win between the two (against Ali in the Fight of the Century) AND he would have a good 15-20 lbs weight advantage over the Rock as well.

But you'd be surprised how many people unthinkingly and emotionally pick Marciano by knockout.

- - Golly, gee! Ali with substantial height, weight, and reach over Joe, but you'd be surprised how many unthinkingly and emotionally pick Joe over Ali.

Back to the chalkboard to figure overratedness yet again...