Rocky Marciano is very overrated IMO

[Marchegiano]

I dropped a portion, my bad.

Floyd in what division has a better resume than Rocky in the HW division? Floyd being GOAT hardly makes him dominant in any division he was in and the whole point was speaking to dominance.

I'll make shorter version. People with losses you have to point to a section of their career. Others without losses didn't bother to fight everyone in a division.

So "But X went 100million and 0 against no bodies" doesn't counter the point made. Everyone in the division

And "But Y from here to here did better doe" Doesn't counter the point made. Full career of domination

You guys can feel free to say you simply disagree.

[Marchegiano]

Louis was undefeated as champion longer than Marciano's career was long. He beat 8 former world champions to Rockys 3. He fought better overall comp and was technically the better fighter, and harder puncher. Besides an undefeated record, Marciano isn't more dominant in almost any other category. I'm not following how you think otherwise.

I don't. I acknowledged portions. You seem to be unwilling to fault for other portions. Louis' career goes beyond his dominant period. Marciano's does not. You don't have to agree with me but there no getting me to go "Oh, okay, I now no longer fault portions and only glorify portions". You get me?

[JAB5239]

I don't. I acknowledged portions. You seem to be unwilling to fault for other portions. Louis' career goes beyond his dominant period. Marciano's does not. You don't have to agree with me but there no getting me to go "Oh, okay, I now no longer fault portions and only glorify portions". You get me?

I get it, I just don't see why it matters looking at the big picture? You're looking at sections of a career it seems while I'm trying to look at the whole of it I think there is more to being dominant than being undefeated.

[Ghost Jab]

If memory serves me right, there used to be a poster on here who called himself Marchegiano, and made a great argument for him being the GOAT. I don't know if he's still around, but I thought I'd make a case for him as well.

Rocky Marciano, born September 1, 1923 as Rocco Francis Marchegiano, is often considered one of the greatest boxers of all time.

Marciano was a heavyweight champion who fought in an era when the heavyweight division was stacked with talent. Marciano faced and defeated the who’s who of heavyweight boxing, including Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles (twice), and Archie Moore.

Marciano also fought the legendary Joe Louis in a heavyweight title bout in 1951. Although Louis was past his prime by the time he fought Marciano, the Brown Bomber was still a formidable opponent, and likely still better at that stage of his career than most top heavyweights in history were at their zeniths.

In their fight, Marciano knocked Louis down in the eighth round, and went on to follow up his success with a fight-ending right cross that spilled the unconscious Louis through the ropes and onto the ring apron.

This moment is still considered one of the most definitive endings to a heavyweight bout in boxing history.

In addition to his wins over boxing legends, Marciano also defeated up-and-coming stars of his day, such as Roland La Starza, Don ****ell, and Rex Layne.

He retired from boxing in 1955 with a perfect record of 49-0, with 43 wins by knockout. Notably also, his career KO percentage of 87.7% is one of the highest ever, and is very close to what Deontay Wilder currently has. This is far more impressive when their resumes are considered side by side.

Because of this, I do believe Marciano was a qualitatively more devastating and powerful puncher than Deontay Wilder was in his prime, not because of how many he knocked out but because of who he knocked out.

In addition to his punching power, Marciano was blessed with agility and was surprisingly fleet of foot for a heavyweight boxer. In addition, he was incredibly strong, had a chin made of granite and balls made of iron, and was always more than willing to walk through fire to land his signature knockout punch, which was notoriously called the Gazelle Punch.

He was a very smart and patient fighter, often patiently waiting for the ideal moment to strike, and he was known for using his opponent's momentum to turn the tables against them.

Moreover, Marciano was a very pure puncher. I had a physics professor who explained how Marciano's punches were delivered perfectly for max force. He had a short, compact swing that generated a lot of power, and he was able to put his whole body into his punches. This made him a very dangerous opponent, and he was able to knockout most of his opponents.

There are many who consider Marciano to be the greatest heavyweight champion of all time, and even more who respectfully list his name near the top in various “best of” boxing lists.

Although I myself am not necessarily convinced he’d beat the modern larger heavyweights, I believe that he certainly has a shout against them on his best day in a hypothetical showdown, and I think it’s quite reasonable and defensible to keep his name in the conversation of greatest heavyweights of all time.

In my opinion, the eye-test, his body of work, and the names he defeated are all evidence enough to convince me that he is, if not the greatest heavyweight of all time, certainly deserving of a place very, very near the top.

—Espiran

[Anthony342]

If memory serves me right, there used to be a poster on here who called himself Marchegiano, and made a great argument for him being the GOAT. I don't know if he's still around, but I thought I'd make a case for him as well.

Rocky Marciano, born September 1, 1923 as Rocco Francis Marchegiano, is often considered one of the greatest boxers of all time.

Marciano was a heavyweight champion who fought in an era when the heavyweight division was stacked with talent. Marciano faced and defeated the who’s who of heavyweight boxing, including Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles (twice), and Archie Moore.

Marciano also fought the legendary Joe Louis in a heavyweight title bout in 1951. Although Louis was past his prime by the time he fought Marciano, the Brown Bomber was still a formidable opponent, and likely still better at that stage of his career than most top heavyweights in history were at their zeniths.

In their fight, Marciano knocked Louis down in the eighth round, and went on to follow up his success with a fight-ending right cross that spilled the unconscious Louis through the ropes and onto the ring apron.

This moment is still considered one of the most definitive endings to a heavyweight bout in boxing history.

In addition to his wins over boxing legends, Marciano also defeated up-and-coming stars of his day, such as Roland La Starza, Don ****ell, and Rex Layne.

He retired from boxing in 1955 with a perfect record of 49-0, with 43 wins by knockout. Notably also, his career KO percentage of 87.7% is one of the highest ever, and is very close to what Deontay Wilder currently has. This is far more impressive when their resumes are considered side by side.

Because of this, I do believe Marciano was a qualitatively more devastating and powerful puncher than Deontay Wilder was in his prime, not because of how many he knocked out but because of who he knocked out.

In addition to his punching power, Marciano was blessed with agility and was surprisingly fleet of foot for a heavyweight boxer. In addition, he was incredibly strong, had a chin made of granite and balls made of iron, and was always more than willing to walk through fire to land his signature knockout punch, which was notoriously called the Gazelle Punch.

He was a very smart and patient fighter, often patiently waiting for the ideal moment to strike, and he was known for using his opponent's momentum to turn the tables against them.

Moreover, Marciano was a very pure puncher. I had a physics professor who explained how Marciano's punches were delivered perfectly for max force. He had a short, compact swing that generated a lot of power, and he was able to put his whole body into his punches. This made him a very dangerous opponent, and he was able to knockout most of his opponents.

There are many who consider Marciano to be the greatest heavyweight champion of all time, and even more who respectfully list his name near the top in various “best of” boxing lists.

Although I myself am not necessarily convinced he’d beat the modern larger heavyweights, I believe that he certainly has a shout against them on his best day in a hypothetical showdown, and I think it’s quite reasonable and defensible to keep his name in the conversation of greatest heavyweights of all time.

In my opinion, the eye-test, his body of work, and the names he defeated are all evidence enough to convince me that he is, if not the greatest heavyweight of all time, certainly deserving of a place very, very near the top.

—Espiran

Well said. Yeah I'd say top 5-10, not #1 and I'm obviously a Marciano fan. No way he's overrated though. He fought most of the best available contenders at the time and beat em all.

[Ghost Jab]

Well said. Yeah I'd say top 5-10, not #1 and I'm obviously a Marciano fan. No way he's overrated though. He fought most of the best available contenders at the time and beat em all.

Thanks for your kind words!

While he isn’t my number one either, I don’t believe he gets his due respect among most casual to moderate fans of the game. So I tried to craft a decent argument based on many of the reasons people choose a favorite or best fighter, such as punching power and KO percentage, agility, bravery and fighting the best, resume…

Once again, thanks for your kind words.

[Marchegiano]

I get it, I just don't see why it matters looking at the big picture? You're looking at sections of a career it seems while I'm trying to look at the whole of it I think there is more to being dominant than being undefeated.

That's confusing again. If I'm faulting Louis for his losses and acknowledging Louis's best era then I am taking into account his entire career. If I pretend the bad showings never happened and act like the point in his life when all was smooth sailing is all that matters then I'm not taking into account his full career.

There is more to being dominant than never losing. You must never lose while facing the top competition of your time. Louis lost against top men, that should be accounted for. Floyd did not fight all the top guys in any division he was in, should be accounted for. Marciano is the only champion in any division to fight all the top men and beat them, usually by KO.

[JAB5239]

That's confusing again. If I'm faulting Louis for his losses and acknowledging Louis's best era then I am taking into account his entire career. If I pretend the bad showings never happened and act like the point in his life when all was smooth sailing is all that matters then I'm not taking into account his full career.

There is more to being dominant than never losing. You must never lose while facing the top competition of your time. Louis lost against top men, that should be accounted for. Floyd did not fight all the top guys in any division he was in, should be accounted for. Marciano is the only champion in any division to fight all the top men and beat them, usually by KO.

Louis lost against better versions of the best fighters Rocky beat. I don't think that even arguable. As for Schmeling, I would say he was much better than the the LaStarza Rocky beat (many thought he lost). So who was more dominant and against better comp?

And again, I prefer to look at an entire career and against who. Just a matter of opinion.

[ShoulderRoll]

If anyone says Marciano is #1 or even top 5 then they are overrating him.

If not then I usually take no issue with them.

[billeau2]

Marciano has always been tough for me to rate. I can look at a fighter like Tyson and show on tape, how dominant he is. I can even show technical aspects compared to Dempsey (for example)... then I can say "his resume may not reflect his dominance." Not an ironclad argument, but can be put forward.

Marciano does not show such skills on tape. He does show incredible human properties, and the effects of his actions tell us how effective he is. Another really interesting aspect of Marciano is his own commentary. It becomes apparent that Marciano maintained a semi permanent crouch, making him a small target. this ultimately is emphasized by Marciano as an attribute necessary for his success.