Would Frazier have beaten Ali the 2nd time if Foreman never happened?

[JAB5239]

Frazier had a suspect chin. Bigger puncher = Bigger threat to Frazier.

Are you denying this? Don't let your love for Smokey blur your vision mate. This is very clear.

Yeah, I know. Tell me who all the guys were who kept Frazier on the canvas? Tell me all the names that forced him to take a 10 count? You guys a comical.

[JAB5239]

If Lyle wasn't worthy to fight frazier because he lost to Quarry,then why was Joe bugner and Jimmy Ellis worthy to fight frazier when Lyle had beaten both men?


Game,set and match.Honestly,gabby,you should just give up.There was a time where even though you were wrong,you'd still put up a fight.Now you're just rolling over and inviting others to kick you while you're down.


Lyle was certainly relevant enough for Muhammad Ali to give him a title shot.Ron Lyle was certainly relevant enough to be chosen as foreman's first fight following his demise in Zaire.

Seriously....don't you ever get tired of looking like a biased, uneducated fan? WHY would Frazier make a fight with anyone when he could make a fight with the better fighter who beat said fighters? Does that make any sense whatsoever? Second...WHY take a fight with Lyle over Ali or Foreman? You've never had an answer for this, nor the time line, and it makes you look like an idiot. Easy question PissPot.....why duck Foreman and Ali for Lyle? Where's the upside?

You're still ducking these questions. Just answer them already. as far as Frazier fighting Bugner and Ellis instead of Lyle....all you have to do is look at the timeline to see a fight with Lyle wasn't available. Of course you will conveniently ignore that little FACT to hold on to your hateful illusions.

[Calilloyd]

There were two things at work during Ali-Frazier II.

1. Ali was thoroughly embarrassed by how easily Foreman handled Frazier and was determined not to be shown up by the skill-less amateur. Below you can see the absolute disgust on his face as he is forced to call the Frazier-Foreman fight. If I was alive back then I wouldve put money on Ali just off the strength of this segment alone:









2. Fraziers aura of invincibility was gone and I think he lost a lot confidence after the Foreman loss. Frazier at that time had defeated the man that most thought couldnt be beaten. Rocky Marciano died with the image of an undefeated Ali being proclaimed as the greatest boxer ever. And then Frazier comes in like a hero and finally knocks the ****y, brash Ali down to size.

Then all of that prestige Frazier built up, evaporated in under 10 minutes when he faced George. How can anyone say that Frazier was the same man after that fight?


So my question is, do you think Frazier wouldve beaten Ali in the rematch if Foreman never existed?

In my opinion, Frazier wouldnt have beaten Ali the first time either if not for Ali's long lay off.

[Calilloyd]

Frazier had a suspect chin. Bigger puncher = Bigger threat to Frazier.

Are you denying this? Don't let your love for Smokey blur your vision mate. This is very clear.

The only person that ever stopped Frazier by knocking him down was Foreman. Maybe the hardest puncher in heavyweight history. So how does that make Frazier's chin "suspect?"

[cooper5]

After Frazier beat Ali, he took a few easy opponents and put on weight. By the time he fought Foreman he seemed to have lost a step. Foreman would have probably beaten him anyways but I felt those easy fights against the like of Ron Stander did him no good. Neither did putting on ten pounds. Ali I felt regained alot of his momentum and skills after his first fight with Frazier so I feel he might have beaten Frazier if Foreman was not in the equasion.

[frankenfrank]

Joe Frazier's corner stopped the 3rd fight against Ali due to the terrible battering he was taking in the 13th and 14th rounds,where he almost went down several times and was ready to get KO'd.

Frazier's corner was worried he was going to get seriously hurt in the 15th round,so they stopped the fight.Eddie Futch stopped the fight.

Frazier told his corner he could not see , that's why they stopped the fight.

[Fighting Marine]

The only person that ever stopped Frazier by knocking him down was Foreman. Maybe the hardest puncher in heavyweight history. So how does that make Frazier's chin "suspect?"

Ok then lad.

In his entire career. How many big punchers did Joe Frazier fight?

C'mon then. How many?

[Fighting Marine]

Yeah, I know. Tell me who all the guys were who kept Frazier on the canvas? Tell me all the names that forced him to take a 10 count? You guys a comical.

The first and only time Frazier fought a devestating puncher his china chin was crushed. If Frazier fought Lyle or Shavers the result would have been the same.

[JAB5239]

The first and only time Frazier fought a devestating puncher his china chin was crushed. If Frazier fought Lyle or Shavers the result would have been the same.

Yup, ok, whatever. Just answer one question and we'll put this weak ass debate to bed...what is more impressive and meaningful, fighting and beating the best fighters who themselves beat these so called great punchers, or not fighting the best to take on these supposed threats who had already been beaten by lesser fighters than Frazier? Make all the assumptions you want (and that is all they are) but fighting the better fighters will always trump fighting guys who couldn't actually force a fight because they lost to Fraziers leftovers.

[JAB5239]

The first and only time Frazier fought a devestating puncher his china chin was crushed. If Frazier fought Lyle or Shavers the result would have been the same.

All you have to do is follow a simple time line to know why these fights didn't occur. Lyle had the best chance but got beat by Quarry. What exactly makes him a better puncher than other fighters Frazier fought?