Would Frazier have beaten Ali the 2nd time if Foreman never happened?

[JAB5239]

My argument has nothing to do with that and you keep ignoring this to fit your own agenda.


I never argued that frazier shouldn't have fought Ali and foreman.I argued that he should have fought Ron Lyle too.There's no reason why he shouldn't have.

Is it lost to you that Ali and foreman both fought Lyle and aswell as fighting each other,Norton and frazier too?

Is it lost on you that Fraziers style wasn't conducive to a long career? You want to penalize him for not fighting certain fighters and give him no credit for the fighters he did beat, some of who beat these fighters you claimed he ducked. Why discredit him for not fighting someone who couldn't force a fight and lost to a fighter Frazier beat? Why discredit when the timeline doesn't add up? How can one fighter duck another when the fight wasn't in the cards at the time? You want to interpret history to fit your agenda but its like putting a square peg in a round hole.

[prinzemanspopa]

Is it lost on you that Fraziers style wasn't conducive to a long career? You want to penalize him for not fighting certain fighters and give him no credit for the fighters he did beat, some of who beat these fighters you claimed he ducked. Why discredit him for not fighting someone who couldn't force a fight and lost to a fighter Frazier beat? Why discredit when the timeline doesn't add up? How can one fighter duck another when the fight wasn't in the cards at the time? You want to interpret history to fit your agenda but its like putting a square peg in a round hole.

It certainly doesn't take months upon months to recover.


I do give credit to Smokey for beating Quarry twice.frazier wasn't in a position to force others for a shot at him.He was in a position to cherry pick while as a champion,but not when he was nothing more than a contender.


I do find it funny that you would hold Lyle's one loss to Jerry Quarry against him.It's that type of attitude that ruins boxing.That one loss didn't stop him from getting a shot against the world heavyweight champion who just happened to hold two wins over the man that beat Lyle.

[JAB5239]

It certainly doesn't take months upon months to recover.

And you would know this how? You've stated in the past that you have never boxed before, but now you're an authority on how long it takes a world class boxer to recover and who and when he should fight? Lol!!!

I do give credit to Smokey for beating Quarry twice.frazier wasn't in a position to force others for a shot at him.He was in a position to cherry pick while as a champion,but not when he was nothing more than a contender.

This doesn't even make sense.

I do find it funny that you would hold Lyle's one loss to Jerry Quarry against him.It's that type of attitude that ruins boxing.That one loss didn't stop him from getting a shot against the world heavyweight champion who just happened to hold two wins over the man that beat Lyle.

I do find it funny how you try and twist words because your arguments are illogical. I never said I hold those losses against Lyle. Only that he lost his shot to force a fight with Frazier. If he had won and Frazier didn't fight him that would be ducking. Your agenda is clear. If Joe had fought Lyle and not Quarry he would have been ducking Jerry in your skewered mind. Which would have been the more meaningful fight in Fraziers career, fighting Lyle, or the guy who beat Lyle? Thats all you need to answer.

[prinzemanspopa]

What did you fail to understand? I just gave credit to frazier for beating Quarry twice.

I said that frazier wasn't in a position to be ordering eliminators for the right to face him while he wasn't champion.He could do this type of cherry picking while he was champion,but certainly not when he was nothing more than a contender



Once again you have completely avoided my response and then have the nerve to accuse me of ducking your questions.


I'm not even talking about frazier avoiding Lyle while he was champion.I accused frazier of avoiding Lyle from 1973-1976,while he wasn't a champion.

Ali held two wins over Quarry,that didn't stop him from fighting Lyle,so why should it have stopped frazier from doing so?

[StarshipTrooper]

Lol, "dim wit"? Don't let that inner troll get the better of you my man, you've been doing so well. I never said better punchers, I said Frazier had faced other punchers besides Foreman. So far you haven't proved otherwise.

Funny how Stoned Rosey Palmer/Used Rubber Soul has to make his posts under multiple accounts

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

I do find it funny how you try and twist words because your arguments are illogical. I never said I hold those losses against Lyle. Only that he lost his shot to force a fight with Frazier. If he had won and Frazier didn't fight him that would be ducking. Your agenda is clear. If Joe had fought Lyle and not Quarry he would have been ducking Jerry in your skewered mind. Which would have been the more meaningful fight in Fraziers career, fighting Lyle, or the guy who beat Lyle? Thats all you need to answer.

This is how the intellectually dishonest do their thing: Conclusion first, then manipulate, cherry pick, and fabricate the evidence to make it fit the conclusion already held. Seems to be popular with the troll set around here.

Poet

[JAB5239]

I'm not even talking about frazier avoiding Lyle while he was champion.I accused frazier of avoiding Lyle from 1973-1976,while he wasn't a champion.

Well lets just take a closer look at things. After losing to Foreman Frazier took on a tough ranked Bugner in what would be considered a "safe" fight after his first loss. If you feel the need to ridicule here Im sure we can go down the list of fighters who have done this same exact thing through out histoyr.

Next we have Ali, the best heavyweight in the world who would regain his title less than a year later. After that its Quarry, who we already know was the better fighter than Lyle. After that its a fight with Ellis in preparation for the rubber match with Ali. Could he have fought Lyle here? Maybe. But what good what that do him in preparing for Ali? After that it back to the rematch with Foreman. Sooo......without you trying to adjust his schedule to fit your agenda, just when should he have fought Lyle during this period?

Ali held two wins over Quarry,that didn't stop him from fighting Lyle,so why should it have stopped frazier from doing so?

The better question is why are you trying to hold Frazier to an Ali standard, yet no one else? Whats next, Foreman ducked Shavers?

[JAB5239]

This is how the intellectually dishonest do their thing: Conclusion first, then manipulate, cherry pick, and fabricate the evidence to make it fit the conclusion already held. Seems to be popular with the troll set around here.

Poet

Its sad that "so called" fans can be close minded and negative toward certain fighters.

[prinzemanspopa]

After losing to Foreman Frazier took on a tough ranked Bugner in what would be considered a "safe" fight after his first loss.

Well there you go,you just acknowledged frazier's cherry picking.

Next we have Ali, the best heavyweight in the world who would regain his title less than a year later. After that its Quarry, who we already know was the better fighter than Lyle. After that its a fight with Ellis in preparation for the rubber match with Ali. Could he have fought Lyle here? Maybe. But what good what that do him in preparing for Ali? After that it back to the rematch with Foreman. Sooo......without you trying to adjust his schedule to fit your agenda, just when should he have fought Lyle during this period?

What you fail to mention is that he spent over eight months inactive after his rematch with Quarry and then another seven months inactive after his pointless rematch with Ellis.

Why would I need "adjust his schedule"? There's nothing to adjust here.Look at the long gaps of inactivity.


He had already fought twenty seven rounds with Ali.A faded Jimmy Ellis served as nothing more than an easy payday for a glass jawed cherry picker.

The better question is why are you trying to hold Frazier to an Ali standard, yet no one else? Whats next, Foreman ducked Shavers?

Some people are ****** enough to think that frazier does belong among the true elite ATG's.

foreman avoiding others is a completely different topic.I'm not going to go into it here.Stay on topic.

[JAB5239]

Well there you go,you just acknowledged frazier's cherry picking.

Lol, you're a clown, really. Why is it only "cherry picking" when Frazier takes this route but not any other fighter in history?

What you fail to mention is that he spent over eight months inactive after his rematch with Quarry and then another seven months inactive after his pointless rematch with Ellis.

Why would I need "adjust his schedule"? There's nothing to adjust here.Look at the long gaps of inactivity.

Funny how you have never stepped in a ring but think you're an authority on who and when someone else should fight. Do I need to start naming other fighters who have taken similar amounts of time off and come back against weaker opposition not only after a loss, but a win? It really isn't that difficult if you chose to look at everybody equally. we know that isn't you M.O. though.

He had already fought twenty seven rounds with Ali.A faded Jimmy Ellis served as nothing more than an easy payday for a glass jawed cherry picker.

Your pathetically hateful agenda is clear!

Some people are smart enough to think that frazier does belong among the true elite ATG's.

Only objective people who know what they're talking about.

foreman avoiding others is a completely different topic.I'm not going to go into it here.Stay on topic.

No, its the same topic, you just don't want to go there because your flimsy house of cards argument crumbles when you have to admit other fighters have taken the same avenue.