Would Frazier have beaten Ali the 2nd time if Foreman never happened?

[Fighting Marine]

Yup, ok, whatever. Just answer one question and we'll put this weak ass debate to bed...what is more impressive and meaningful, fighting and beating the best fighters who themselves beat these so called great punchers, or not fighting the best to take on these supposed threats who had already been beaten by lesser fighters than Frazier? Make all the assumptions you want (and that is all they are) but fighting the better fighters will always trump fighting guys who couldn't actually force a fight because they lost to Fraziers leftovers.

Simple fact. Frazier ducked the bigger threats. He had a china chin and ducked the big punchers. Why don't you answer my question? In an Era which arguably produced the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history, How many devestating punchers did Joe Frazier fight? Please list them.......

1.

[Fighting Marine]

All you have to do is follow a simple time line to know why these fights didn't occur. Lyle had the best chance but got beat by Quarry. What exactly makes him a better puncher than other fighters Frazier fought?

So Smoking Joe was fighting Ali and Foreman every other week? Yet the Champion Ali and Foreman were taking on all comers. Lyle was important enough to get a shot at Ali and Foreman but what made Frazier so special to not fight him?

Ali defeated Lyle's conqueror's aswell so why didn't Ali use the excuse that I don't need to fight him cause I beat the man who beat him? WHY?

FACT: Frazier ducked the Big Punchers of His Era

[prinzemanspopa]

You're still ducking these questions. Just answer them already. as far as Frazier fighting Bugner and Ellis instead of Lyle....all you have to do is look at the timeline to see a fight with Lyle wasn't available. Of course you will conveniently ignore that little FACT to hold on to your hateful illusions.

It's not me "ducking" your questions,it's you ducking my answers.I already told you that both foreman and Ali fought Lyle aswell as fighting frazier.You seem to think that frazier had no time to fight Lyle because he was too busy fighting Ali and foreman every other month.


Lyle was a top ten contender,just like frazier.Top ten Contenders fight one another.



All you're doing now is discrediting foreman and Ali's wins over Ron Lyle.You wish to penalize them for actually having the sack to fight a dangerous top ten contender.

[Fighting Marine]

It's not me "ducking" your questions,it's you ducking my answers.I already told you that both foreman and Ali fought Lyle aswell as fighting frazier.You seem to think that frazier had no time to fight Lyle because he was too busy fighting Ali and foreman every other month.


Lyle was a top ten contender,just like frazier.Top ten Contenders fight one another.



All you're doing now is discrediting foreman and Ali's wins over Ron Lyle.You wish to penalize them for actually having the sack to fight a dangerous top ten contender.

I can't believe JAB is ignoring that simple fact.

WTF makes Frazier so special? Ali fought Lyle, Lyle's conqueror, and the man who ducked Lyle.

[JAB5239]

Simple fact. Frazier ducked the bigger threats. He had a china chin and ducked the big punchers. Why don't you answer my question? In an Era which arguably produced the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history, How many devestating punchers did Joe Frazier fight? Please list them.......

1.

So the biggest threats are no longer the best fighters? Answer the post that preceded this and I'll be happy to answer yours. In fact lets make this easy. Drug testing aside, if Pac decided to fight Shane instead of Floyd, who just beat him, would that be a more important fight because he was fighting the better puncher? Very easy questions here my man, no need to dance around them.

[Fighting Marine]

So the biggest threats are no longer the best fighters? Answer the post that preceded this and I'll be happy to answer yours. In fact lets make this easy. Drug testing aside, if Pac decided to fight Shane instead of Floyd, who just beat him, would that be a more important fight because he was fighting the better puncher? Very easy questions here my man, no need to dance around them.

One fact you are totally ignoring here JAB. The fighters ability to take a punch. Pacquiao has proven he can take a punch at the Higher weights so opting to fight the more skilled fighter instead of the big puncher would not be considered a duck.

Take Amir Khan for example. Malignaggi is a more skilled and accomplished boxer than Maidana but Khan obviously ducked the BIGGER THREAT ie the BIGGER PUNCHER.

DO NOT IGNORE THIS FACT

When Frazier fought the only big puncher of his career. His chin was exposed.

Now don't dance around my question.

Simple fact. Frazier ducked the bigger threats. He had a china chin and ducked the big punchers. Why don't you answer my question? In an Era which arguably produced the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history, How many devestating punchers did Joe Frazier fight? Please list them.......

1.

?????????????

[JAB5239]

One fact you are totally ignoring here JAB. The fighters ability to take a punch. Pacquiao has proven he can take a punch at the Higher weights so opting to fight the more skilled fighter instead of the big puncher would not be considered a duck.

Take Amir Khan for example. Malignaggi is a more skilled and accomplished boxer than Maidana but Khan obviously ducked the BIGGER THREAT ie the BIGGER PUNCHER.

DO NOT IGNORE THIS FACT

When Frazier fought the only big puncher of his career. His chin was exposed.

Now don't dance around my question.



?????????????

You're still ducking my question...why? BUT...just to humor you, both Bonavena and Chuvalo have better ko percentages than Lyle, so your whole theory just went out the window that Frazier never fought any punchers. If you want to challenge that be my guest, I've already done the homework. BOTH have ko's as good or better than Lyle at the time he COULD have had a shot at Frazier had he not lost to Quarry. Now I will kindly ask you to answer my question as I have shown the decency to answer yours.

[Fighting Marine]

I answered your question mate. You are ducking mine. You are ignoring simple truths or are simply too narrow minded to understand.

You're still ducking my question...why? BUT...just to humor you, both Bonavena and Chuvalo have better ko percentages than Lyle, so your whole theory just went out the window that Frazier never fought any punchers.

So higher KO% = More Devastating Puncher? Ok then idiot. Who is the more devastating puncher?

Joe Louis or Vitali Klitschko?

Answer that question and DO NOT DODGE IT.

If you want to challenge that be my guest, I've already done the homework. BOTH have ko's as good or better than Lyle at the time he COULD have had a shot at Frazier had he not lost to Quarry. Now I will kindly ask you to answer my question as I have shown the decency to answer yours.

You never answered my question dim wit. You ducked all of them. So George Chuvalo and Oscar Bonavena were bigger punchers than Ron Lyle? Is this the conclusion of your 'homework'? Fail

[prinzemanspopa]

So the biggest threats are no longer the best fighters?

My argument has nothing to do with that and you keep ignoring this to fit your own agenda.


I never argued that frazier shouldn't have fought Ali and foreman.I argued that he should have fought Ron Lyle too.There's no reason why he shouldn't have.

Is it lost to you that Ali and foreman both fought Lyle and aswell as fighting each other,Norton and frazier too?

[JAB5239]

I answered your question mate. You are ducking mine. You are ignoring simple truths or are simply too narrow minded to understand.

Really? When did you answer this question?

what is more impressive and meaningful, fighting and beating the best fighters who themselves beat these so called great punchers, or not fighting the best to take on these supposed threats who had already been beaten by lesser fighters than Frazier?

So higher KO% = More Devastating Puncher? Ok then idiot. Who is the more devastating puncher?

Joe Louis or Vitali Klitschko?

Answer that question and DO NOT DODGE IT.

Idiot, huh? Im guessing you're going back to troll mode?

The point is you said Frazier never fought a puncher besides Foreman. There are no if, and's or but's about it, you're wrong. Were these guys not powerful punchers? If not what makes Lyle so much a better puncher?

As far as your Louis Klit question goes...V is a good puncher. But look at the comp to see the difference.

You never answered my question dim wit. You ducked all of them. So George Chuvalo and Oscar Bonavena were bigger punchers than Ron Lyle? Is this the conclusion of your 'homework'? Fail

Lol, "dim wit"? Don't let that inner troll get the better of you my man, you've been doing so well. I never said better punchers, I said Frazier had faced other punchers besides Foreman. So far you haven't proved otherwise.