Would Frazier have beaten Ali the 2nd time if Foreman never happened?

[boxing boy]

What do you mean by that ?

Joe Frazier's corner stopped the 3rd fight against Ali due to the terrible battering he was taking in the 13th and 14th rounds,where he almost went down several times and was ready to get KO'd.

Frazier's corner was worried he was going to get seriously hurt in the 15th round,so they stopped the fight.Eddie Futch stopped the fight.

[Tobi.G]

I think there's no doubt that any fresh,active,non-rusty version of Ali handles "smokey" with relative ease,just like he actually did in their rematch.You have to remember that ole "smoke" blatantly ducked a rematch with Ali for three years until he was sure Ali had nothing left after his two struggles with frazier's former sparring partner.


The frazier you saw in the rematch with Ali and the first foreman fight was the same frazier of the first Ali fight.frazier lost to foreman and Ali twice decisively because he was simply inferior to both.


All the foreman fight showed was that frazier had a glass jaw and couldn't take a punch.Had frazier had the testicular fortitude to step into the ring with a puncher earlier in his career then chances are that frazier would never have gotten anywhere near a title shot to begin with.

Thats one of the worst posts i has ever seen! Frazier is a Top10 HW of all times and you have to live with it! Just as Foreman but Foreman was just a verry bad styles make fights factor for Frazier. The Ali-Frazier fights are legendary and all 3 were huge wars and both guys had good moments in any of these fights.

[Tobi.G]

Frazier has a chin of granite and you know he has.. never ever in his career was he unconscious from a punch nor was he counted out which is a testament to his toughness and granite chin.. it was the sheer brute-power and force of Foremans punches which lifted him off his feet and down to the canvas and nothing at all to do with Frazier having any kind of weak chin like you claim he has.. Frazier having a 2nd battle with Foreman when he was `Blind in one-eye` again is a testament to his toughness.. Your claim of Frazier avoiding every puncher is laughable with Frazier taking on the best fighters in the division over an 8yr period when he was at the top... Frazier never fought Shavers instead he fought the guy who butchered Shavers Ron Stander, Frazier fought Jerry Quarry (twice) George Foreman (twice) Oscar Bonavena (twice) Muhammad Ali (Thrice) Jimmy Ellis (twice) Joe Bugner, Buster Mathis who was 23-0, Chuvalo, Machen & Bob Foster he even fought the awesome punching Jumbo`Cummings to a draw when he was 38yrs old... Joe Frazier took part in 4 Ring Magazine Fights of the Year and was himself voted Fighter of the Year on three occasions, Frazier also took part in and won the Greatest fight in the history of the sport "Fight of the Century"... so for you to repeatedly try to assassinated his character and question his toughness is nothing other than `Bull**** Talk`coming from your mouth because not one single boxing fan worldwide could possibly believe what you are trying to imply .... your comments are laughable to the point of being ridiculous, Smokin Joe Frazier achieved more in this sport than almost any other fighter who ever lived and i know that you know that to be correct so i suggest you change your tune and try to pull some lesser fighter to pieces who achieved far less in this sport than what Joe Frazier achieved because Joe Frazier stands alone in this sport as Muhammad Ali said of him, "He was the roughest & the toughest i ever fought".

Great post! I have to sign that!

[StarshipTrooper]

Thats one of the worst posts i has ever seen! Frazier is a Top10 HW of all times and you have to live with it! Just as Foreman but Foreman was just a verry bad styles make fights factor for Frazier. The Ali-Frazier fights are legendary and all 3 were huge wars and both guys had good moments in any of these fights.

I shouldn't bother trying to reason with him as he's one of the Boxing History section's resident trolls. He's been banned more than a dozen times and is likely overdue for another.

Poet

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

You really don't have a clue who Leotis Martin is,do you?

Martin had campaigned for a fight with frazier a good number of years before his eye injury.They were former sparring partners and the two est heavyweights in the city.The logical matchup would have een to have matched the pair up while frazier was still a prospect,but no,frazier didn't want anything to do with a puncher.

Why do you dismiss Frazier when he has beaten the guys who beat the guys you wanted him to fight? First its Foster and Lyle, who were both beaten by Quarry, who Frazier beat. Now its Martin, who was beaten by Bonavena, who 3 months later Frazier beat. Just say you hate the guy, thats fine. But stop trying to sound like some credible source when it is so easy to show your facts don't add up.

[DeepSleep]

frazier wasn't stopped on cuts,he was stopped on his refusal to go out on his shield like a true warrior.

Do you realize lying about how one of the most popular fights of all time ended to a bunch of Boxing fans isn't going to help your argument?

Seriously we get it you don't like Frazier... It's getting old that every thread with his name in it turns into you ranting about his chin.

[prinzemanspopa]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;8491514]

Why do you dismiss Frazier when he has beaten the guys who beat the guys you wanted him to fight? First its Foster and Lyle, who were both beaten by Quarry, who Frazier beat. Now its Martin, who was beaten by Bonavena, who 3 months later Frazier beat. Just say you hate the guy, thats fine. But stop trying to sound like some credible source when it is so easy to show your facts don't add up.

So what if Quarry had beaten foster and Lyle,wasn't frazier who did it,was it?

Real great's don't organize their own little title eliminators,even when they may not be champion.


What was frazier's excuse for not fighting Lyle from 1973-1976 when he was no longer champion and no longer in a position to be calling the shots?

During those years,Lyle managed to secure fights with foreman and the champion Ali.both these men beat frazier twice decisively and yet they still fought Lyle.Why was frazier on such a higher level.

Do you realize lying about how one of the most popular fights of all time ended to a bunch of Boxing fans isn't going to help your argument?

Didn't realize that I was lying about frazier quitting in his corner.Usually when a fighter fails to come out for a round it means that he quit.I'm not making any exceptions for everyone's favourite leech.

[boxing boy]

[QUOTE=prinzemanspopa;8492399]

So what if Quarry had beaten foster and Lyle,wasn't frazier who did it,was it?

Real great's don't organize their own little title eliminators,even when they may not be champion.


What was frazier's excuse for not fighting Lyle from 1973-1976 when he was no longer champion and no longer in a position to be calling the shots?

During those years,Lyle managed to secure fights with foreman and the champion Ali.both these men beat frazier twice decisively and yet they still fought Lyle.Why was frazier on such a higher level.







Didn't realize that I was lying about frazier quitting in his corner.Usually when a fighter fails to come out for a round it means that he quit.I'm not making any exceptions for everyone's favourite leech.

Frazier's corner stopped the fight in the Trilla' in Manilla.

Eddie Futch stopped the fight.But Frazier was protesting to Futch,begging him to not stop the fight.Frazier wanted to come out for the 15th and final round.Those are the facts.

[$Bullsfam$]

Yeah that dudes obviously trolling on purpose just to get kicks. That's like saying Wlad is ducking Ruiz because he won't fight him after Haye just beat him. or like saying Wlad's ducking Arreola just because he's a good puncher when his brother beat him. Makes no sense.

As for the question. I don't think it mattered. Like Sonny said Fraizer had the will-to-win of a true champion. He had one of the best hearts in boxing. It was just a bad style match up and plus Frazier will to win of a champion that couldn't be broke, I don't think it mattered.

Ali was just the better man that night period. I think the only thing that can be debated in that rivalry is the 3rd fight because Ali was pretty much done when the fight was stopped.

[prinzemanspopa]

But Frazier was protesting to Futch,begging him to not stop the fight.

No,he didn't.futch wasn't going to admit that frazier himself quit.Of course they are going to fabricate some story that frazier wanted to continue.futch wasn't going to ruin frazier's reputation by admitting that his man was a quitter.


You continue to believe in the fairytale stories while I take the role of the realist.

Makes no sense.

What makes no sense is a newb involving himself in a discussion that he has no knowledge about.You don't have a clue on who was even relevant in that era.