Would Frazier have beaten Ali the 2nd time if Foreman never happened?

[sonnyboyx2]

Nowhere in my post did I glorify frazier.I've never said foreman was the hardest puncher of all time either.


The last time that a world class heavyweight was destroyed and dropped numerous times in just two rounds was just seven years ago.And that man in now regarded as having a glass jaw.






Getting dropped six times in two rounds,mostly by glancing shots and almost a dozen times in just thirty seven fights and eight times against the only puncher that he would ever face is a glass jaw.

frazier wasn't stopped on cuts,he was stopped on his refusal to go out on his shield like a true warrior.

The fact that he would spend an entire career avoiding virtually every ranked puncher suggests that neither "smokey" nor his team fancied his chances with a real puncher.


His chin rates among the very worst of any world champion in any weight class.

Frazier has a chin of granite and you know he has.. never ever in his career was he unconscious from a punch nor was he counted out which is a testament to his toughness and granite chin.. it was the sheer brute-power and force of Foremans punches which lifted him off his feet and down to the canvas and nothing at all to do with Frazier having any kind of weak chin like you claim he has.. Frazier having a 2nd battle with Foreman when he was `Blind in one-eye` again is a testament to his toughness.. Your claim of Frazier avoiding every puncher is laughable with Frazier taking on the best fighters in the division over an 8yr period when he was at the top... Frazier never fought Shavers instead he fought the guy who butchered Shavers Ron Stander, Frazier fought Jerry Quarry (twice) George Foreman (twice) Oscar Bonavena (twice) Muhammad Ali (Thrice) Jimmy Ellis (twice) Joe Bugner, Buster Mathis who was 23-0, Chuvalo, Machen & Bob Foster he even fought the awesome punching Jumbo`Cummings to a draw when he was 38yrs old... Joe Frazier took part in 4 Ring Magazine Fights of the Year and was himself voted Fighter of the Year on three occasions, Frazier also took part in and won the Greatest fight in the history of the sport "Fight of the Century"... so for you to repeatedly try to assassinated his character and question his toughness is nothing other than `Bull**** Talk`coming from your mouth because not one single boxing fan worldwide could possibly believe what you are trying to imply .... your comments are laughable to the point of being ridiculous, Smokin Joe Frazier achieved more in this sport than almost any other fighter who ever lived and i know that you know that to be correct so i suggest you change your tune and try to pull some lesser fighter to pieces who achieved far less in this sport than what Joe Frazier achieved because Joe Frazier stands alone in this sport as Muhammad Ali said of him, "He was the roughest & the toughest i ever fought".

[prinzemanspopa]

frazier avoiding virtually every puncher of his generation is there for all to see.He avoided them on his way to the title and bar foreman,avoided them while he was champion and after he lost his title.

He ducked out of a tournament to crown a new champion because Leotis Martin had also entered that particular tournament.

What do you mean by that ?

Means that he quit rather than go out like a true warrior.

So does Foreman has a weaker jaw than Frazier's glass Jaw ?

Well,foreman actually had the guts to fight Lyle.frazier avoided Lyle.I wouldn't say foreman showed an outstanding chin during his peak as he avoided virtually everyone with his pulse,but he sure as hell demonstrated one during his comeback.

[sonnyboyx2]

frazier avoiding virtually every puncher of his generation is there for all to see.He avoided them on his way to the title and bar foreman,avoided them while he was champion and after he lost his title.

He ducked out of a tournament to crown a new champion because Leotis Martin had also entered that particular tournament.





Means that he quit rather than go out like a true warrior.







Well,foreman actually had the guts to fight Lyle.frazier avoided Lyle.I wouldn't say foreman showed an outstanding chin during his peak as he avoided virtually everyone with his pulse,but he sure as hell demonstrated one during his comeback.

To claim Joe Frazier avoided Ron Lyle is quite simply ridiculous and completely incorrect... Ron Lyle made his pro-debut 10 weeks after Joe Frazier won Fight of the Century, Lyle suffered his first pro defeat 2 weeks after Frazier lost his world title to Foreman... Lyle lost every round and was staggered by Jerry Quarry with Quarry then beating Earnie Shavers in the opening round to secure his self a 2nd shot at Frazier who slaughtered him in a brutal mismatch.. Frazier then beat former champion Jimmy Ellis then put on his remarkable performance in Manila against Muhammad Ali which more or less ended his career yet he still took on George Foreman in his next fight before retiring from the game.... Lyle lost to Jimmy Young and Muhammad Ali during the same time period and was never ever mentioned as a possible opponent for Joe Frazier because Smokin Joe Frazier always fought the best not the 2nd best.

[frankenfrank]

frazier avoiding virtually every puncher of his generation is there for all to see.He avoided them on his way to the title and bar foreman,avoided them while he was champion and after he lost his title.

you repeat it and repeat avoiding my questions and arguments.

He ducked out of a tournament to crown a new champion because Leotis Martin had also entered that particular tournament.

You just can't be serious about this one.

Means that he quit rather than go out like a true warrior.

Frazier did not quit .
And what is going out like a true warrior ?

Well,foreman actually had the guts to fight Lyle.frazier avoided Lyle.I wouldn't say foreman showed an outstanding chin during his peak as he avoided virtually everyone with his pulse,but he sure as hell demonstrated one during his comeback.

If anything , Foreman avoided everyone with a pulse (who didn't hold a title)
during his comeback and not during his first reign when you admitted he had the guts to face Lyle. And of course he also faced Frazier twice , Ali , Jimmy Young , Goerge Chuvalo and Ken Norton during his first run.

[prinzemanspopa]

To claim Joe Frazier avoided Ron Lyle is quite simply ridiculous and completely incorrect.

Lyle was consistently rated as top ten rated contender for the last three years of frazier's career.He managed to get a title shot against Ali and secure a fight with foreman and yet he's somehow not worthy and yet Ellis and bugner are?

You just can't be serious about this one.

I am,and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

And what is going out like a true warrior ?.

Not quitting to avoid getting knocked out

If anything , Foreman avoided everyone with a pulse (who didn't hold a title)
during his comeback and not during his first reign when you admitted he had the guts to face Lyle. And of course he also faced Frazier twice , Ali , Jimmy Young , Goerge Chuvalo and Ken Norton during his first run.

foreman spent his entire career padding his record with bums and fighting the odd heavyweight ranked in the top ten,still doesn't change the fact that he showed a chin during his comeback.


frazier never showed a chin against a real puncher in his life.

[frankenfrank]

I am,and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Out of all the fighters in that tournament you chose Leotis Martin to be the reason to why Frazier did not participate ?

Not quitting to avoid getting knocked out

Frazier did not quit and did not want the fight to be stopped , Ali did , however , and he passed out after the fight , if anyone was going to get KO'd
in that fight , it was Ali and not Frazier.
Stating Frazier quit in that fight damages your credibility , especially when you show knowledge in many facts about the history of the sport.
But worst of all , you keep ignoring some parts of my replies to you.

[prinzemanspopa]

Out of all the fighters in that tournament you chose Leotis Martin to be the reason to why Frazier did not participate ?.

You really don't have a clue who Leotis Martin is,do you?

Martin had campaigned for a fight with frazier a good number of years before his eye injury.They were former sparring partners and the two est heavyweights in the city.The logical matchup would have een to have matched the pair up while frazier was still a prospect,but no,frazier didn't want anything to do with a puncher.

Frazier did not quit and did not want the fight to be stopped .

That's funny,because he did quit and the fight was stopped.

Stating Frazier quit in that fight damages your credibility.

And I care what complete strangers on an internet forum think about me because?

[frankenfrank]

You really don't have a clue who Leotis Martin is,do you?

Martin had campaigned for a fight with frazier a good number of years before his eye injury.They were former sparring partners and the two est heavyweights in the city.The logical matchup would have een to have matched the pair up while frazier was still a prospect,but no,frazier didn't want anything to do with a puncher.

Frazier fought fiercer opposition , not in a Philadelphia level , but in a world level.

That's funny,because he did quit and the fight was stopped.

Well , he was already blind in one eye and because of the swelling could barely see in the other , if that's quitting then ok , Vitali , Liston , O'neil Bell and definitely Roberto Duran were Quitters too.

And I care what complete strangers on an internet forum think about me because?

Why should you post here and argue with those complete strangers really ?

[CarlosG815]

I believe Frazier at his best beats Ali in the 2nd fight. Frazier was done after his 1st fight with Ali.

[boxing boy]

Yes I don't think Perez did Frazier any favours re letting him fight his fight

Your right,but the reffere for the 3rd fight did not allow Ali to hold.And he still won.