How does Joe Louis do against these fighters?

[TheGreatA]

i think you somewhat changed what i said in the past , maybe i said he was up there with harold johnson , p4p wise even better , h2h about the same , but i never considered moore and harold johnson at the same level . and how do you know i do not watch boxing ? i know a different thing. and everyone are former straweights , the question is : when was the last time one could make the straweight's limit.
charles schooled louis ? byrd could school him better.
remember that at 201+ , byrd had a very good chin and a superb defense , charles' defense at this weight was far below byrd's.
charles would not have lasted the distance with prime mccline , tua and wlad (byrd did once) .

I didn't say you don't watch boxing at all. However you've admitted to not having even seen some of the boxers that you claim weren't any good. You have made up your opinions on them based on maybe taking a brief look at their record and little else.

It's difficult to take what you say too seriously when other people here have watched and analyzed hours of footage of the likes of Louis, Charles, Moore, while you haven't even put in the effort to watch a single fight, despite being certain that they couldn't compete today.

As I said, in order to talk boxing you must watch boxing. You may have seen Byrd, McCall, Tua but you haven't seen Louis.

Charles, who was a better boxer than Byrd, schooled an ancient Joe Louis who was coming back only to pay his taxes. I guess it was a prime Byrd in there when he was crushed by an average light heavyweight in Shaun George.

[donkim]

BTW, you're Klitschko2009 alt aren't you?

Poet

ChucklePoet strikes again.When in doubt,accuse others of being an alt.



Brush your teeth and join a gym,ya fat ****.

[frankenfrank]

I didn't say you don't watch boxing at all.

It's difficult to take what you say too seriously when other people here have watched and analyzed hours of footage of the likes of Louis, Charles, Moore, while you haven't even put in the effort to watch a single fight, despite being certain that they couldn't compete today.

i never said they could not compete today , they could do well today , but at lower weight classes where they belong.

As I said, in order to talk boxing you must watch boxing. You may have seen Byrd, McCall, Tua but you haven't seen Louis.

i have seen a little of schmelling ,louis , walcott , marciano and charles ,
mainly highlights and some 3-4 entire fights of them all combined .
really a little , but no one answered the question : what could louis ever do against tua or even mccall when he's on a rage.

Charles, who was a better boxer than Byrd

at 175 he was better , at any higher class he was worse.
charles was KO'd by walcott and marciano , byrd lasted the distance with McCline , Tua and even once with Wladimir Klitschko.
each one of these would have massacred charles , not because of their great talent , just because their huge physical superiority.

I guess it was a prime Byrd in there when he was crushed by an average light heavyweight in Shaun George.

a shot to death byrd , who took plenty of shots from mccline , golota , wlad (twice) , vitali (once) and many more.

[frankenfrank]

also : tom sharkey and fitzsimmons competed at their time's 'HW' , so what , they could compete today at this weight ?
that's what weight classes are for , and i think that a big majority of them are necessary , probably not sufficient .
as the number of pro boxers increased , the number of really big boxers also increased , and also the average skill increased , the word was average , i do not think that glen johnson is as talented as archie moore , i guess even tarver , dawson , and reggie johnson are less talented than him , but in average today's fighters are a little more skilled , and more important more than a little more adjusted to their weight classes. vitali klitschko is in no way today's primo carnerra , this is an insult , vitali would have never been KO'd by those who KO'd carnerra , he would have destroyed them just like , or probably even worse than he did orlin norris , danny williams , sam peter , juan carlos gomez and kirk johnson.
even valuev remained unstopped , so i guess it is an insult even for him to be called 'today's primo carnerra' , and haye is a heavier hitter than anyone carnerra ever faced. haye is a bigger cruiserweight than louis , or in your words : the more natural heavyweight. maybe a slightly shorter , but trained much better and so , much more lean muscle.
and i am no fan of either klitscko : it is a real shame to be stopped 3 times by those who stopped wlad in the way they did.
and regarding both klitschkos , it does not take a genius to be a really big man destroying little midgets. but vitali at least was never KO'd or almost KO'd as a pro (yes , i know his losses : a shoulder injury and a severe cuts combination - nothing like what his brother received)

[TheGreatA]

i never said they could not compete today , they could do well today , but at lower weight classes where they belong.

i have seen a little of schmelling ,louis , walcott , marciano and charles ,
mainly highlights and some 3-4 entire fights of them all combined .
really a little , but no one answered the question : what could louis ever do against tua or even mccall when he's on a rage.

What could he do against Tua or McCall? He could beat them.

Tua is dangerous but he could be outboxed easily. He barely won a majority decision against a 200 lber like Jeff Wooden. Cruiserweight-sized Chris Byrd outboxed him and hurt him to the body. Oquendo, Rahman and Maskaev were taking him to school in every round until getting caught.

McCall is a one trick pony who lost to 200 lb Mike Hunter, 200 lb Orlin Norris, smallish DaVarryl Williamson, struggled to win a split decision against the very average Sedreck Fields.

at 175 he was better , at any higher class he was worse.
charles was KO'd by walcott and marciano , byrd lasted the distance with McCline , Tua and even once with Wladimir Klitschko.
each one of these would have massacred charles , not because of their great talent , just because their huge physical superiority.

Byrd was also TKO'd by Ibeabuchi, Klitschko, Povetkin. McCline didn't even massacre Robert Calloway so what's the guarantee he would do so against Ezzard Charles?

a shot to death byrd , who took plenty of shots from mccline , golota , wlad (twice) , vitali (once) and many more.

I guess Louis was in his prime against Charles though.

[sonnyboyx2]

What could he do against Tua or McCall? He could beat them.

Tua is dangerous but he could be outboxed easily. He barely won a majority decision against a 200 lber like Jeff Wooden. Cruiserweight-sized Chris Byrd outboxed him and hurt him to the body. Oquendo, Rahman and Maskaev were taking him to school in every round until getting caught.

McCall is a one trick pony who lost to 200 lb Mike Hunter, 200 lb Orlin Norris, smallish DaVarryl Williamson, struggled to win a split decision against the very average Sedreck Fields.



Byrd was also TKO'd by Ibeabuchi, Klitschko, Povetkin. McCline didn't even massacre Robert Calloway so what's the guarantee he would do so against Ezzard Charles?



I guess Louis was in his prime against Charles though.

Well said A...... Ezzard Charles, Walcott & Joe Louis could really punch, they could render an opponent unconscious for the full count and longer, yet todays fighters who are all over 240lbs and 6ft 6ins + can never seem to render their opponents unconscious.. i put this down to them carrying "too much weight" which makes their punches lose that split-second of speed that gives a punch the "snap" needed to really poleaxe an opponent... Charles, Walcott, & Louis had better stamina and carried their punching power throughout the full 15rds of a fight.. todays be****ths are full of steroids and PED, protein drinks, creatine etc.. IMO todays fighters are vastly inferior to the fighters pre1980... i think guys like Cleveland Williams, Joe Bugner, Ron Lyle who easily take care of the Klitschko brothers

[frankenfrank]

What could he do against Tua or McCall? He could beat them.

how ? louis was a big puncher for his time , not a great boxer of his time.

Tua is dangerous but he could be outboxed easily.

until he catches you and then it really what matters.

He barely won a majority decision against a 200 lber like Jeff Wooden.

that jeff wooden also lost a SD to michael grant , starts to look like an underestimated fighter. listed as 6'3"/76" with a lowest ever weight of 209 , and a highest of 223 , he could make 200 easily but so does byrd , whose fight with him is not scored in boxrec. just UD - nothing about the depth of it.

Cruiserweight-sized Chris Byrd outboxed him and hurt him to the body.

i saw that fight , you really exaggerate about the "hurt him to the body"
tua hurt byrd worse to the body in that fight , but this is obvious , so people forget.

Oquendo, Rahman and Maskaev were taking him to school in every round until getting caught.

regarding rahman , i will go further than you and will say that tua never beat rahman , it was after the bell .
regarding oquendo and maskaev : tua finally got what he wanted , that what matters in the end , one can not even excuse both cases , or can he ?

McCall is a one trick pony who lost to 200 lb Mike Hunter, 200 lb Orlin Norris, smallish DaVarryl Williamson, struggled to win a split decision against the very average Sedreck Fields.

decisions - especially close ones when fighting excellent boxers like norris who also gave hell to tucker (twice) , Jirov (i forgot you don't regard him as good) , a still young arthur williams , stopped williams the second time , and did it much quicker than what jirov and bell achieved against a shot williams , orlin norris was a very good cw and a fine hw.
davarryl williamson was smallish ? really ? if so , so is mccall himself which helps to understand.
close decisions should be regarded as Draws / No Decisions .
otherwise they are hugely misleading.
start respect stoppages more.
and btw - mccall also took buster douglas the distance - the same one who KO'd tyson , at about the same time - no 'old'/'young' excuses.
mccall also stopped Akiwande , Darroll wilson and maskaev. and has some other fine decisions if you check.
not exactly a one trick pony.
tua , tyson , golota , michael grant and vitali klitschko could not repeat that trick.

Byrd was also TKO'd by Ibeabuchi, Klitschko, Povetkin. McCline didn't even massacre Robert Calloway so what's the guarantee he would do so against Ezzard Charles?

in the povetkin fight , the permanently undersized and outgunned byrd , very much spent this time , took on a rising talented prospect who also decisioned a prime eddie chambers around that time.
just look at povetkin's record - who can beat him today except the klitschkos ? maybe tua , maybe mccall , and that's all.

I guess Louis was in his prime against Charles though.

(1)he was the reigning champion
(2) he was prime against schmelling
(3) but was schmelling prime in their rematch ?
(4) i guess the louis of walcott1 was also not prime , a short prime he had. starts to sound like a terry norris kind of prime.

[TheGreatA]

how ? louis was a big puncher for his time , not a great boxer of his time.

Louis was a great boxer as well. He could outpoint you as well as knock you out. If he knew the knockout wasn't coming, he'd simply outpoint you with the jab.

until he catches you and then it really what matters.

He didn't always catch you which is why he never held a version of the world title.

that jeff wooden also lost a SD to michael grant , starts to look like an underestimated fighter. listed as 6'3"/76" with a lowest ever weight of 209 , and a highest of 223 , he could make 200 easily but so does byrd , whose fight with him is not scored in boxrec. just UD - nothing about the depth of it

Louis was 6'2 with a 76 inch reach and at his peak weighed 208 pounds.

i saw that fight , you really exaggerate about the "hurt him to the body"
tua hurt byrd worse to the body in that fight , but this is obvious , so people forget.

A feather-fisted fighter was able to hurt Tua to the body, imagine if it was Joe Louis dealing out those blows:


2:20

regarding rahman , i will go further than you and will say that tua never beat rahman , it was after the bell .
regarding oquendo and maskaev : tua finally got what he wanted , that what matters in the end , one can not even excuse both cases , or can he ?

Oquendo and Maskaev weren't great fighters though, yet they were able to outbox Tua in every round. Tua was just not a good boxer at all, he was just a puncher.

decisions - especially close ones when fighting excellent boxers like norris who also gave hell to tucker (twice) , Jirov (i forgot you don't regard him as good) , a still young arthur williams , stopped williams the second time , and did it much quicker than what jirov and bell achieved against a shot williams , orlin norris was a very good cw and a fine hw.

Norris was pretty good but he was also small. To you size seems to be everything.

davarryl williamson was smallish ? really ? if so , so is mccall himself which helps to understand.

McCall weighed as much as 250 pounds. Williamson usually fought at 210 pounds. Size doesn't always matter.

close decisions should be regarded as Draws / No Decisions .
otherwise they are hugely misleading.
start respect stoppages more.
and btw - mccall also took buster douglas the distance - the same one who KO'd tyson , at about the same time - no 'old'/'young' excuses.
mccall also stopped Akiwande , Darroll wilson and maskaev. and has some other fine decisions if you check.
not exactly a one trick pony.
tua , tyson , golota , michael grant and vitali klitschko could not repeat that trick.

McCall took Buster Douglas the distance and lost. So what, a lot of people took Buster Douglas the distance, and the really good fighters outside of Tyson beat him. Why would you praise a fighter for losing?

Oliver was a one trick pony because all of his wins were with the counter right hand, usually when he was losing. If he didn't catch you with it, he couldn't win. He was not an all-around boxer by any means, just a tough guy with a good right hand.

in the povetkin fight , the permanently undersized and outgunned byrd , very much spent this time , took on a rising talented prospect who also decisioned a prime eddie chambers around that time.
just look at povetkin's record - who can beat him today except the klitschkos ? maybe tua , maybe mccall , and that's all.

But Povetkin is not even a big puncher. Byrd is a small guy yet he has been competitive in this era. This works against your argument that the fighters of the past couldn't compete today because they were too small. Numerous fighters who are "too small" compete today. Eddie Chambers is top 5 and he weighs 209 lbs.

(1)he was the reigning champion
(2) he was prime against schmelling
(3) but was schmelling prime in their rematch ?
(4) i guess the louis of walcott1 was also not prime , a short prime he had. starts to sound like a terry norris kind of prime.

Louis had given up his title and had been retired for 2 years before taking on Charles because he needed the money.

Louis was 21 years old when he fought Schmeling, was David Tua in his prime when he was KO'd in one round by Felix Savon?

Schmeling was still a very good fighter by the time of the rematch. He scored an impressive one round KO over Heuser after the loss to Louis.

Louis was in his prime from 1938 to 1942 when he went to the war. No one is going to be the same after 4 years away from Boxing.

[JAB5239]

how ? louis was a big puncher for his time , not a great boxer of his time.

until he catches you and then it really what matters.

that jeff wooden also lost a SD to michael grant , starts to look like an underestimated fighter. listed as 6'3"/76" with a lowest ever weight of 209 , and a highest of 223 , he could make 200 easily but so does byrd , whose fight with him is not scored in boxrec. just UD - nothing about the depth of it.

i saw that fight , you really exaggerate about the "hurt him to the body"
tua hurt byrd worse to the body in that fight , but this is obvious , so people forget.

regarding rahman , i will go further than you and will say that tua never beat rahman , it was after the bell .
regarding oquendo and maskaev : tua finally got what he wanted , that what matters in the end , one can not even excuse both cases , or can he ?

decisions - especially close ones when fighting excellent boxers like norris who also gave hell to tucker (twice) , Jirov (i forgot you don't regard him as good) , a still young arthur williams , stopped williams the second time , and did it much quicker than what jirov and bell achieved against a shot williams , orlin norris was a very good cw and a fine hw.
davarryl williamson was smallish ? really ? if so , so is mccall himself which helps to understand.
close decisions should be regarded as Draws / No Decisions .
otherwise they are hugely misleading.
start respect stoppages more.
and btw - mccall also took buster douglas the distance - the same one who KO'd tyson , at about the same time - no 'old'/'young' excuses.
mccall also stopped Akiwande , Darroll wilson and maskaev. and has some other fine decisions if you check.
not exactly a one trick pony.
tua , tyson , golota , michael grant and vitali klitschko could not repeat that trick.

in the povetkin fight , the permanently undersized and outgunned byrd , very much spent this time , took on a rising talented prospect who also decisioned a prime eddie chambers around that time.
just look at povetkin's record - who can beat him today except the klitschkos ? maybe tua , maybe mccall , and that's all.

(1)he was the reigning champion
(2) he was prime against schmelling
(3) but was schmelling prime in their rematch ?
(4) i guess the louis of walcott1 was also not prime , a short prime he had. starts to sound like a terry norris kind of prime.

You are without a doubt the most ignorant poster to come to this board.

[THE REED]

GreatA bringing his GreatA game... if you get into a debate with him you seriously better be prepared for a loss... not too mention 365 youtube videos of why you're wrong