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How does Joe Louis do against these fighters?

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  • Originally posted by Mr. Shen View Post
    well yeah thats what i was saying fighting 96 times against people that arnt going to take advantage of your mistakes and dont hurt as much when they hit is going to make you feel comfortable like you can slack off all the time.
    True. .

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    • Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
      True.
      i just wanted to point that out incase some one brings up well if joe was so good then why was ali's comeback so much greater if they both took a 3 or 4 year break? when its because while ali was burning to fight some one that whole time, joe was becoming complacent.

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      • It would also has something to do with Ali being a greater fighter than Joe Louis.

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        • It would also have something to do with Louis being 32 at the time of his comeback, the same age that Ali regained the title from George Foreman. He wouldn't have, had he started his comeback at that moment.

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          • Originally posted by Princemanzpoper View Post
            It would also has something to do with Ali being a greater fighter than Joe Louis.
            Perhaps a better boxer but not a better fighter.

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            • Originally posted by Mr. Shen View Post
              Perhaps a better boxer but not a better fighter.

              Louis can be a better boxer,a better fighter,he can throw a jab better and he can do everything by the book like his nuthugging historians love him for......but he was still an inferior heavyweight to Ali.





              Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
              It would also have something to do with Louis being 32 at the time of his comeback, the same age that Ali regained the title from George Foreman. He wouldn't have, had he started his comeback at that moment.




              It's three years...not thirteen.Such a layoff will affect a reflex fighter worse than a puncher

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                You're right, Moorer and Ruiz didn't use the jab against Tua. The fighters who did use the jab were usually outpointing him in every round unless they lost focus and got caught.
                both used their jabs , but it was like using a pistol against a tank.
                both chin-wise and powerpunch-wise.


                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                It does mean something. Just about everyone worth anything has won a version of the title today yet David Tua couldn't. That speaks volumes about his ability, or the lack of it.
                had it been worth anything ruiz , moorer and maskaev would have ended much better against tua , wouldn't they ?
                so i guess each one of them , and every world titlist ever should be ranked above tua , roy jones was also a better heavy than tua , right ?
                after all he decisioned the ruiz whom tua KO'd in half a minute.
                i guess tua is a serial fluker.


                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                Louis is as tall and as Oquendo and Maskaev and has a longer reach than Oleg, but he didn't get KO'd in every other fight of his like Maskaev did.
                sure louis is better than maskaev and oquendo , but with his stationarity
                he'd be badly beat , you don't expect him to run for his life , do you ?
                if he did , he will last longer than 1 round , if he fights he gets a goodnight kiss from canvas.

                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                I've never seen McCall look "fat". He was bigger than Williamson but lost. He's also bigger than Louis but would lose.
                not arreola fat , but he is fat. i think except tyson , holyfield , bruno and the klitschkos almost everyone were.

                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                You still lose. And McCall lost a lot.
                losing SD is nothing like being stopped , decisions are many times wrong as you know , many times decision losses are robberies and mean ****.
                mccall's technique is not great but chin and power count a lot.

                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                McCall was no Joe Louis and would have lost to Louis just like he did to almost everyone who was half-decent. He upset Lennox Lewis once and cried his way out of the rematch. He was basically a lesser Buster Douglas, who was another fighter that beat him among many.
                had he been a lesser buster douglas he should have been stopped many times. but he wasn't.

                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                He'll lose to Wladimir because he is not as good as Wladimir.
                he is as good as wladimir. what in wlad's technique is better than chamber's ? his use of his huge physical advantage that chambers does not have ?
                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                He could be 6'5, 250 lbs and he'd still lose.
                and wlad is even more than that , at least on paper he is.
                a 6'5" chambers has a very big chance against wlad.
                wlad is no povetkin , he relies on his size more.
                he does not fight like povetkin .


                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                The same reason why Louis would beat the likes of McCall, Tua.
                in a 3 fights series against each one of them , but especially tua , louis gets the worse of it.
                as i used to write : tua:louis : 2(2):1(0)

                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                They might have a weight advantage over him but they just aren't that good. Size matters when the two fighters are equally as good which is not the case here.
                what won louis fights ? opportunistic shots like you say about mccall.
                but like tua he created his opportunities .
                but tua has the better chin and bigger power , both by far.
                that would be the difference .
                if louis tries to really fight , he gets KO'd , unless he turns to floyd.

                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                Evander Holyfield weighed 205 when he was the champion in the 90's, Moorer was a former light heavyweight, Byrd claimed he often weighed well below the cruiserweight limit. Not to mention Roy Jones and James Toney, or David Haye.
                of those you mentioned only byrd faced the klitschkos and you know what the lesser sister did to him.
                moorer was KO'd by a slow plodding clumsy old worn foreman.
                holyfield made a great use of his head , just like tyson made a great use of his elbows , and still it was not enough against bowe .
                neither of those you mentioned had a chance against a klitschko/lewis.
                holyfield came close against lewis , but lacked the punch to crack even lewis' chin.
                why is this ? because no one of those you mentioned belonged at 201+ , that's why each one of them did not achieve much at 201+.
                if anything , you should have brought tyson as example but he did use elbows didn't he ? but tua was a clean fighter .

                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                In that case every era is weak because cruiserweight-sized boxers have always competed at heavyweight. Cruiserweight is a bogus division that no one cares about.
                so lets cancel the 175 division too , who needs it ?
                after all , moorer , jones , toney and byrd did move up , didn't they ?
                also charles and walcott.
                harold johnson would be a live underdog against vitali , after all , he was no less good , wasn't he ?


                Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                And David Tua at 21 was weighing around 200-210 pounds. Is he any bigger than Louis or did he just put on fat that doesn't help anything like you said?
                tua put on more than just fat since he was 21.

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                • Originally posted by frankenfrank View Post
                  both used their jabs , but it was like using a pistol against a tank.
                  both chin-wise and powerpunch-wise.



                  had it been worth anything ruiz , moorer and maskaev would have ended much better against tua , wouldn't they ?
                  so i guess each one of them , and every world titlist ever should be ranked above tua , roy jones was also a better heavy than tua , right ?
                  after all he decisioned the ruiz whom tua KO'd in half a minute.
                  i guess tua is a serial fluker.



                  sure louis is better than maskaev and oquendo , but with his stationarity
                  he'd be badly beat , you don't expect him to run for his life , do you ?
                  if he did , he will last longer than 1 round , if he fights he gets a goodnight kiss from canvas.


                  not arreola fat , but he is fat. i think except tyson , holyfield , bruno and the klitschkos almost everyone were.


                  losing SD is nothing like being stopped , decisions are many times wrong as you know , many times decision losses are robberies and mean ****.
                  mccall's technique is not great but chin and power count a lot.


                  had he been a lesser buster douglas he should have been stopped many times. but he wasn't.


                  he is as good as wladimir. what in wlad's technique is better than chamber's ? his use of his huge physical advantage that chambers does not have ?

                  and wlad is even more than that , at least on paper he is.
                  a 6'5" chambers has a very big chance against wlad.
                  wlad is no povetkin , he relies on his size more.
                  he does not fight like povetkin .



                  in a 3 fights series against each one of them , but especially tua , louis gets the worse of it.
                  as i used to write : tua:louis : 2(2):1(0)


                  what won louis fights ? opportunistic shots like you say about mccall.
                  but like tua he created his opportunities .
                  but tua has the better chin and bigger power , both by far.
                  that would be the difference .
                  if louis tries to really fight , he gets KO'd , unless he turns to floyd.


                  of those you mentioned only byrd faced the klitschkos and you know what the lesser sister did to him.
                  moorer was KO'd by a slow plodding clumsy old worn foreman.
                  holyfield made a great use of his head , just like tyson made a great use of his elbows , and still it was not enough against bowe .
                  neither of those you mentioned had a chance against a klitschko/lewis.
                  holyfield came close against lewis , but lacked the punch to crack even lewis' chin.
                  why is this ? because no one of those you mentioned belonged at 201+ , that's why each one of them did not achieve much at 201+.
                  if anything , you should have brought tyson as example but he did use elbows didn't he ? but tua was a clean fighter .


                  so lets cancel the 175 division too , who needs it ?
                  after all , moorer , jones , toney and byrd did move up , didn't they ?
                  also charles and walcott.
                  harold johnson would be a live underdog against vitali , after all , he was no less good , wasn't he ?



                  tua put on more than just fat since he was 21.
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsMRUCzHuGs

                  Take a look at this and tell me David Tua has a better chin than Joe Louis... tell me Tua does not use his elbows.. where is this BIG power of Tua you keep going on about, the only power Tua has ever shown was catching John Ruiz with the first punch of the fight by surprise and doing the same to an old Michael Moorer... which does not make him better than the great joe Louis..

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Princemanzpoper View Post
                    Louis can be a better boxer,a better fighter,he can throw a jab better and he can do everything by the book like his nuthugging historians love him for......but he was still an inferior heavyweight to Ali.

                    it's three years...not thirteen.Such a layoff will affect a reflex fighter worse than a puncher
                    Another alt red Ked, ignored, and reported.

                    Poet

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by frankenfrank View Post
                      both used their jabs , but it was like using a pistol against a tank.
                      both chin-wise and powerpunch-wise.
                      Both Moorer and Ruiz fought stupid against Tua, they basically gave him every opportunity to land a bomb. Other fighters didn't, and Tua couldn't put them away. I notice you keep bringing up these two fights against B-level belt holders, I guess that's Tua's only claim to fame. His power still wasn't enough to beat real champions such as Lewis and Byrd, nor would it be against Louis.

                      had it been worth anything ruiz , moorer and maskaev would have ended much better against tua , wouldn't they ?
                      so i guess each one of them , and every world titlist ever should be ranked above tua , roy jones was also a better heavy than tua , right ?
                      after all he decisioned the ruiz whom tua KO'd in half a minute.
                      i guess tua is a serial fluker.
                      Tua beat a young Ruiz, not the near impossible to KO cautious clincher that he later became.

                      He beat an old Moorer who was there to collect a paycheck.

                      Maskaev was KO'd more impressively by Kirk Johnson and Lance Whitaker but neither of them were world championship caliber. He had a chin made of glass yet was outboxing Tua in every round until getting caught.

                      sure louis is better than maskaev and oquendo , but with his stationarity
                      he'd be badly beat , you don't expect him to run for his life , do you ?
                      if he did , he will last longer than 1 round , if he fights he gets a goodnight kiss from canvas.
                      He wouldn't be as stationary as you'd think. He wouldn't run either. He'd do to Tua what he did against Baer. Step in and out of Tua's (shorter) range and catch him with shorter, more accurate punches.

                      not arreola fat , but he is fat. i think except tyson , holyfield , bruno and the klitschkos almost everyone were.


                      Not what I'd call fat. And if you're saying he was "fat" then what's this argument about McCall being bigger than Louis all about? Maybe he weighed more because he was out of shape then because he sure wasn't taller and didn't have a longer reach.

                      losing SD is nothing like being stopped , decisions are many times wrong as you know , many times decision losses are robberies and mean ****.
                      mccall's technique is not great but chin and power count a lot.
                      McCall has also lost numerous clear decisions by wide margins. He fights like a sparring partner which is why he doesn't win in the judges' eyes.

                      had he been a lesser buster douglas he should have been stopped many times. but he wasn't.
                      He was a lesser Buster Douglas because he couldn't beat Buster Douglas.


                      he is as good as wladimir. what in wlad's technique is better than chamber's ? his use of his huge physical advantage that chambers does not have ?

                      and wlad is even more than that , at least on paper he is.
                      a 6'5" chambers has a very big chance against wlad.
                      wlad is no povetkin , he relies on his size more.
                      he does not fight like povetkin .
                      He can punch unlike Chambers. Wladimir has beaten several opponents his size, such as Tony Thompson, Jameel McCline and Derrick Jefferson. It's not just his size that wins the fights.

                      in a 3 fights series against each one of them , but especially tua , louis gets the worse of it.
                      as i used to write : tua:louis : 2(2):1(0)

                      what won louis fights ? opportunistic shots like you say about mccall.
                      but like tua he created his opportunities .
                      but tua has the better chin and bigger power , both by far.
                      that would be the difference .
                      if louis tries to really fight , he gets KO'd , unless he turns to floyd.
                      Where does all this confidence in your fight picks come from? Do you bet on fights and make money from it? From what I'm seeing your only argument for Tua is that he is "big" and can punch and take a punch.

                      Louis won fights because he was the greatest puncher and finisher of all time. Having a chin and a punch can win fights but not at the level Louis was competing at. Max Baer had a punch and a chin too, see how he ended up. Being a bigger puncher doesn't mean anything when you're facing a better puncher.

                      Louis's jab will score, as Tua is about the easiest fighter in heavyweight history to dominate with the jab, and it'll keep Tua off balance. In punching exchanges Louis's quicker, more accurate punches will score and he is a big enough puncher to gain the respect of Tua. Look at what Lewis scoring right hands early on Tua did to his mentality, Tua no longer tried to rush in and be aggressive, he was content on lasting the distance.


                      of those you mentioned only byrd faced the klitschkos and you know what the lesser sister did to him.
                      moorer was KO'd by a slow plodding clumsy old worn foreman.
                      holyfield made a great use of his head , just like tyson made a great use of his elbows , and still it was not enough against bowe .
                      neither of those you mentioned had a chance against a klitschko/lewis.
                      holyfield came close against lewis , but lacked the punch to crack even lewis' chin.
                      why is this ? because no one of those you mentioned belonged at 201+ , that's why each one of them did not achieve much at 201+.
                      if anything , you should have brought tyson as example but he did use elbows didn't he ? but tua was a clean fighter .
                      That's because Byrd and Moorer weren't great fighters. But they were still competitive, disproving your argument that "cruiserweights" can't compete today when they obviously can and do, see Haye, Chambers. Vitali couldn't put away Byrd and quit against him. Holyfield was able to beat Bowe in the rematch and gave Lewis a close fight in the rematch. He was not a puncher as you said but Louis was. Louis has the power to repeat a Brewster/Sanders/Puritty on Wladimir. And Sanders was an overweight golfer, imagine if Wladimir was fighting a full-time, peak shape power puncher.

                      so lets cancel the 175 division too , who needs it ?
                      after all , moorer , jones , toney and byrd did move up , didn't they ?
                      also charles and walcott.
                      harold johnson would be a live underdog against vitali , after all , he was no less good , wasn't he ?
                      The light heavyweight division is of historical significance and it's filled with competent fighters who fight at their best weight. The cruiserweight division is basically a junior heavyweight division where heavyweight hopefuls hide to beat lesser opposition until stepping up. See Adamek, Haye, basically any relevant cruiserweight ever.

                      tua put on more than just fat since he was 21.
                      "21 is not 19 , it is growth time and critical difference."

                      The fact is that neither Tua or Louis were at their best at the time. They went onto be better and proved it.

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