Was James j jeffries one of the greatest?

[Willie Pep 229]

The story of James Jeffries offering Jack Johnson a fight in a bar refers to an incident around 1903 or 1904, when Johnson, the first African American Colored Heavyweight Champion, sought a title shot against Jeffries, the reigning World Heavyweight Champion. According to historical accounts, Johnson entered Jeffries’ saloon in San Francisco and challenged him to a title fight. Jeffries, aware of the racial and political climate that made such a match controversial, reportedly refused a formal ring fight, citing that Johnson had “no name” and the bout wouldn’t draw a crowd. Instead, Jeffries allegedly proposed a private fight in the saloon’s cellar, saying, “I won’t meet you in the ring because you’ve got no name and we won’t draw flies. But I’ll go downstairs to the cellar with you and lock the door from the inside. And the one who comes out with the key will be the champ.”

Yep! A great story. I love it. I pointed out that Mike Tyson loved it too. A great story. The stuff prize fight legends are made of.

You should avoid using phrases like the bold above. They are discrediting.

[Dr Z]

Yep! A great story. I love it. I pointed out that Mike Tyson loved it too. A great story. The stuff prize fight legends are made of.

You should avoid using phrases like the bold above. They are discrediting.

Should I say many modern historian say the same thing?

[Willie Pep 229]

Should I say many modern historian say the same thing?

No! You should cite the actual source or you should say something like: "There's a story out there . . ."

At least that's how I do it.

Claimg 'historians' agree with you means nothing.

That's the 'appeal to authority' fallacy at play.

You need details, not general statements.

[travestyny]

The story of James Jeffries offering Jack Johnson a fight in a bar refers to an incident around 1903 or 1904, when Johnson, the first African American Colored Heavyweight Champion, sought a title shot against Jeffries, the reigning World Heavyweight Champion. According to historical accounts, Johnson entered Jeffries’ saloon in San Francisco and challenged him to a title fight. Jeffries, aware of the racial and political climate that made such a match controversial, reportedly refused a formal ring fight, citing that Johnson had “no name” and the bout wouldn’t draw a crowd. Instead, Jeffries allegedly proposed a private fight in the saloon’s cellar, saying, “I won’t meet you in the ring because you’ve got no name and we won’t draw flies. But I’ll go downstairs to the cellar with you and lock the door from the inside. And the one who comes out with the key will be the champ.”

Jeffries (and you) really want us to believe that having a private fight between just the two of them would somehow be more beneficial to prizefighters than charging people to get into the room and watch? Is that your argument?

This was an obvious duck by Jeffries.

By the way, have you ever come to terms with him saying he could have never defeated Johnson? I remember you giving a big song and dance about how that has never been documented, but it wasn't hard to find

[JAB5239]

- - Jeff fought 1/3rd of his career against fighters 'of color" with a overlap of JJohnson's fight with them with better results than JJ.

Moreover, he as champion risked his reputation by giving Johnson Slayer Hank Griffin a rematch after already KOing the first time in a nothing fight to prove a point. Had he lost, the usual monkeytoids around here including U would be crowing how sorry he was.

Had JJohnson not lost to Marvin Hart, Jeff would've fought him.

When he fought JJohnson 6 yrs after retirement, it was because the social landscape had changed that made the fight worth record setting purse$, something monkeys like U never experienced...yeah, everyday monkey day for U!!!

Let's see hr has Hank Griffen (once being described as looking like a famine sufferer), Bob Armstrong (the sparring partner) and the ghost of Peter Jackson ( who was probably already suffering from tuberculosis. Now maybe you silly drunken fruitcakes in Texas do math a little differently, but where I'm from 3 is not a third of 22.

[JAB5239]

He asked for it, but Jeffres said, " You would not draw files. " Instead he offered Johsnon a private fight on the spot. Johnson walked out.


Had Johnson takens his lumps, he could have misled the press al la Jack Munore and maybe that would have built up a purse that Jeffries was used to receiving. Jeffries received about 30k for the Corbett and Fitzsimmons II re-matches.


OR

Had Johnson beaten Marvin Hart in early 1905 maybe then a Reno like purse would have been enough for Jeffries. This is only speculation.

Neither happened. Judging Jeffries off his 1910 performance when he was old, had not fought in 6 years and had to lose about 80 pounds to get in shape means very little. In fact it means nothing. As stated we don't judge Ali based on one match in his last fight vs. Berbick.

As I indicated between real results of 1899 - 1906 of common opponents Jeffries was superior across the board and did not lose in the common matches twice. Johnson has numerous losses to other men and many draws to 2nd and 3rd raters. These are the facts.

In a 1901-1906 match, Jeffries would beat Johnson based on the common opponent's foguht and their results among them. Besides, he was much bigger than the 180- 190 lbs Johsnon. You mentioned that Jeffires beat some of his famous opponents this size. Johsnon was a small cruiser weight guy. Size does matter. So does being in your prime.

Lol, even Jeffries has admitted he could have never beaten Johnson. Had Jeffries fought Johnson from 1901-1906 maybe he wouldn't have taken as many lumps as he ended up taking anyway.

[Dr Z]

Lol, even Jeffries has admitted he could have never beaten Johnson. Had Jeffries fought Johnson from 1901-1906 maybe he wouldn't have taken as many lumps as he ended up taking anyway.

You are a comical guy. Who was the reporter? Funny how you latch on the nameless source. Don't you always ask to produce them? A prime Jeffries was much better than the 1910 washed up version. Again look at the dates and the results of the common opponents!


Sure Jeffries would have been Ko'd by Choynski, quit vs Klon***e ,beaten at the hands of Griffin, and lost to Marvin Hart not to mention numerous draw the 2nd and 3rd raters! But Johnson did. As said, you are funny.

[JAB5239]

You are a comical guy. Who was the reporter? Funny how you latch on the nameless source. Don't you always ask to produce them? A prime Jeffries was much better than the 1910 washed up version. Again look at the dates and the results of the common opponents!


Sure Jeffries would have been Ko'd by Choynski, quit vs Klon***e ,beaten at the hands of Griffin, and lost to Marvin Hart not to mention numerous draw the 2nd and 3rd raters! But Johnson did. As said, you are funny.

It's in the book "Papa Jack". Maybe you should ask Randy Roberts. Surely he would never lie or make anything up, right?

[Dr Z]

It's in the book "Papa Jack". Maybe you should ask Randy Roberts. Surely he would never lie or make anything up, right?

I thought you asked him and Ward about Johnson quitting. What page is it on, do tell?

[JAB5239]

I thought you asked him and Ward about Johnson quitting. What page is it on, do tell?

He never got back to me. Imagine that? Why don't you buy the book and see for yourself? Isn't it enough I had to show you the Tyson was in fact getting beaten before finally stopping Botha? Start doing your own homework son.