Was James j jeffries one of the greatest?

[Willie Pep 229]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

[Ben Bolt]

There are a few minutes of Jeffries vs Ruhlin on youtube.

Boxrec: The Akron Daily D*mocrat reported the following on November 16, 1901:
Almost from the beginning of the fight Ruhlin appeared to be scared. In the second round, when Jeffries landed a left hook on the jaw, it seemed that all the fight was gone out of Gus. In the fifth, after a round in which Ruhlin had all the worst of the fighting, he was assisted to his corner and claimed that a chance blow on the pit of the stomach had rendered him unfit for fighting. His seconds tried to induce him to continue, but Gus insisted that he was the victim of an accidental punch. Jeffries walked to Ruhlin's corner, asked what was the mutter, and then turned and went to his dressing room, while the crowd cheered him and denounced Ruhlin as a quitter and a faker.

Jeffries: "I was certainly surprised at my easy victory and Ruhlin's amazing defeat. While it is true that he did not punish me hard enough during the five rounds to cause me any alarm, I believed him strong and cautious up to the moment of his collapse, and was surprised when he quit. I certainly had no difficulty in whipping him, and had the fight gone on the result must have been the same. Ruhlin was inaccurate and in poor wind, and I cannot say that he even had the courage and force I expected to encounter in him."

Ruhlin: "I believed from the top of the gong that I would win, but as the fight progressed I was beaten down until I received a blow in the stomach, which I must say was very low, but which may not have been a foul, and which no living man could have survived. Jeffries departed from the written rules and from the common regulations of boxing when he threw himself upon me and wrestled rather than sparred. I do believe that had I not received the stomach punch, I would have worn down Mr. Jeffries a few rounds later and beaten him as a matter of endurance."

[Willie Pep 229]

There are a few minutes of Jeffries vs Ruhlin on youtube.

Boxrec: The Akron Daily D*mocrat reported the following on November 16, 1901:
Almost from the beginning of the fight Ruhlin appeared to be scared. In the second round, when Jeffries landed a left hook on the jaw, it seemed that all the fight was gone out of Gus. In the fifth, after a round in which Ruhlin had all the worst of the fighting, he was assisted to his corner and claimed that a chance blow on the pit of the stomach had rendered him unfit for fighting. His seconds tried to induce him to continue, but Gus insisted that he was the victim of an accidental punch. Jeffries walked to Ruhlin's corner, asked what was the mutter, and then turned and went to his dressing room, while the crowd cheered him and denounced Ruhlin as a quitter and a faker.

Jeffries: "I was certainly surprised at my easy victory and Ruhlin's amazing defeat. While it is true that he did not punish me hard enough during the five rounds to cause me any alarm, I believed him strong and cautious up to the moment of his collapse, and was surprised when he quit. I certainly had no difficulty in whipping him, and had the fight gone on the result must have been the same. Ruhlin was inaccurate and in poor wind, and I cannot say that he even had the courage and force I expected to encounter in him."

Ruhlin: "I believed from the top of the gong that I would win, but as the fight progressed I was beaten down until I received a blow in the stomach, which I must say was very low, but which may not have been a foul, and which no living man could have survived. Jeffries departed from the written rules and from the common regulations of boxing when he threw himself upon me and wrestled rather than sparred. I do believe that had I not received the stomach punch, I would have worn down Mr. Jeffries a few rounds later and beaten him as a matter of endurance."

Boy nothing does change but the date.

Jeffries: "I had him all the way."

Ruhlin: "I was fouled."

[JAB5239]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

He did see Johnson-Jeffries from what i found, but he was seventeen at the time. You make a valid point about film back then, but its hard to say for certain.

[Dr Z]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

Asside from Sharkey II here's what out there:



Ruhlin vs. Jeffries was filmed and survives to this day. It was made in 1901.

Jeffries vs. Munore was filmed and presumably is out there. That one was filmed in 1904. I have not seen it.




Clips of Jeffries vs. Fitzsimmons 1 may be out there.

Other films of Jeffries sparring and working out can be seen.


Jogging with Ryan. I saw it.

Sparring with his brother I saw it.

[QueensburyRules]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

- - Seen at least three, but definitely all his title fights were filmed, but Boxing has seldom ever had a sense of History.

Fitz/Corbett was the first ever blockbuster that went international and made $100s of thousands of $$$ that prompted the rapid rise of movie theaters. The US National Film Registry never recognized the fight as the first ever blockbuster that needed preservation until I wrote them a letter politely in 2010 along with letters to boxing Senators John McCain and Henry Reed and to Clint Eastwood.

Much of the film and most of the others were lost because of that incompetent oversight. Hollywood never gave a flying F either.

Interesting story has one of Jeff's fights filmed out of a cigar box which was impossible given the technology then and for a long time after.

[JAB5239]

- - Seen at least three, but definitely all his title fights were filmed, but Boxing has seldom ever had a sense of History.

Fitz/Corbett was the first ever blockbuster that went international and made $100s of thousands of $$$ that prompted the rapid rise of movie theaters. The US National Film Registry never recognized the fight as the first ever blockbuster that needed preservation until I wrote them a letter politely in 2010 along with letters to boxing Senators John McCain and Henry Reed and to Clint Eastwood.

Much of the film and most of the others were lost because of that incompetent oversight. Hollywood never gave a flying F either.

Interesting story has one of Jeff's fights filmed out of a cigar box which was impossible given the technology then and for a long time after.

I'm seeing only two of his fights were filmed, but several of his championship fights were recreated in parts for film.

[ShoulderRoll]

- - So what. His record against common opponents of JJohnson blows Johnson out of the water.

Nobody then and now cares what wannabee boxing fans think about history they are clueless about.

I said nothing about Jack Johnson. You’re making up your own discussion and arguing it.

[Dr Z]

I said nothing about Jack Johnson. You’re making up your own discussion and arguing it.

Well he is comparing common opponents as justifying Jeffries as a great.


In all case Jeffires did much better than Jack Johnson vs:


#1 Choynski. A green Jeffries ( 7th pro fight ) knocked him down ( he says multiple times in the Two 2 Fisted Jeff book ) and settled for a crowd hissing draw. Choynski years later slightly past his prime knocked Johnson out in three rounds. In fact he knocked him cold. Jonhson said his head was still ringing the next day



#2 Jeffries KO'd Hank Griffin in his prime and beat him badly over 4 rounds the second time.

A slightly past his prime Griffin decisioned Jack Johsnon, had to settle for a BS draw in the second fight and drew with the third match.


#3 Jeffries blew out Mexican Pete Everettt in 3 rounds. Johnson took a shop worn version of Everrtt the distance over 20 rounds in a draw.


#4 Jeffries blew out Munroe in two rounds. Johnson took a fat Munroe the distance in a win over six rounds.



Now you see the same four opponents, a difference in thier age / working condition, yet very different results.

Jeffries offered Johnson a private fight in a bar ( 1902 -1904 I do not have the exact date ) Johnson refused.


Jim Jeffries > Jack Johnson.

Johnson beat a six year inactive, old , rustry, 35 year old Jeffries who had to lose about 80 pounds to get into shape. The win in a pure boxing sense is about as big as Trevor Berbick over M. Ali.


All of the above fights are on Box Rec.

James J. Jeffries, still regarded by some fight historians as the single greatest heavyweight in history, was a fearsome and intimidating fighter who established plenty of credentials for himself in just 21 professional prizefights. He was the very embodiment of the rugged, two-fisted hulk of brawn that people at the turn of the century wanted their champion to be. It is unfortunate that his loss to Jack Johnson, after a six-year layoff from boxing, remains the best known moment of his career, for Jeffries' accomplishments were many. He fought nine bouts against future hall of famers and made seven defenses of the championship. His fighting prowess was so great, in fact, that respected boxing historian Tracy Callis wrote that Jeffries' combination of assets makes him the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time. Even Jack Johnson, Jeffries' more famous conqueror, before his own death in 1946, stated that he felt Jeffries was the best of any era. - Box Rec



There you have it.

- Dr Z

[QueensburyRules]

I'm seeing only two of his fights were filmed, but several of his championship fights were recreated in parts for film.

- - Been sipping U Mickeys again, eh?

Guaranteed after the Fitz/Corbett International BlockBu$ter where Jeffries first appears as the Giant in street clothes in the ring post fight, most of his title fights were filmed, but I don't have a definitive number since Boxing then and now has always been poorly regulated and poorly recorded.