ABC org and Vit Klit lovers and Lewis haters...

[JAB5239]

Did Vitali ever work with King?

Yep. At least one time I know of against Peter. Wlad also worked with King on a few occasions.

[Willow The Wisp]

I'm not sure what the point of the ratings lists are in this thread but whatever, I don't think any list maker needs much prompt to get to making the lists. Which, BTW, is a tradition older than ratings. The lists of good men are what inspired ratings to exist in the first place. I always just feel like I'm carrying on with boxing culture, which is good enough reason tbh. Just saying, Don't get the point.



2000-2025

1. Usyk
2. Wlad
3. Joshua
4. Lewis
5. Fury
6. Vitali
7. Byrd
8. Wilder
9. RJJ
10. Haye
11. Valuev
12. Ruiz
13. Holyfield
14. Ruiz
15. Dubois
16. Parker
17. Tua
18. Briggs
19. Chagaev
20. Sanders
21. Ibragimov
22. Rahman
23. Peter
24. Maskaev
25. Liakhovich
26. Brewster
27. Stiverne
28. Povetkin
29. Chambers
30. Hunter

I did 30 then noticed Z only did half that and Willow did 50 but opened it to 90s. so 30 in the era asked is actually just fine.

I can field that one. All posters contribute in their own style, as we might expect is the case. I produced my list as a means of conveying my thoughts, as a frequent concert goer, regarding the relative merits of the fighters being mentioned here.
If nothing else, to serve as a brief departure from accretions about management strategies and career decisions being reflected as "ducks", and various other pissing contests.

Lewis retired as an older gentleman while still in possession of the one historical world championship. Well done, I say. The decision to do so is one of several aspects of his career that make him an ATG.

[Marchegiano]

Just to clarify, I see some King fighters I know of on V's resume but when I check if it was a DK fight, King's not listed.

Byrd and Adamek were not with King for Vitali. I'm not sure Vitali ever worked with King. He may have simply been leary of that promoter.



As far as I know the K2 boys are fairly shrewd.



While I do doubt Vitali was scared of Hasim, also, I kinda think Rahman might win that fight. ****, i thought he might beat Wlad though too. I may be too Rahman friendly.

TBF, Rahman's entire career is kill or be killed and Wlad had been not too distantly in the past dropped by less heavy hands. He hadn't shown a consistent ability to stay safe yet. Or I hadn't noticed it would be more accurate probably.

I know Ruiz shut him down but Quiet Man gets no respect because his style was sleepy not really because he ******. the x2 and often cheated HW was a better clinch artist than any. On stalling you out, I'd put Ruiz ahead of k2 and Johnson. Best to ever stall them out. So, for me, the Ruiz loss isn't really as telling as it should be.

I didn't realize Wlad was finna join Ruiz style clinching with Lewis style jab. Hell, Larry style at time. Larry/Lewey jab with Ruiz stalls ... murder ... but I didn't know yet.




Anyway, love that we're in a period of history I lived and wasn't just like 8 or some such. I remember TF out of Rahman-Ruiz. ****, I didn't even expect the east. I thought the names were going to be Rahman and Ruiz ffs. Well, tbh, and Toney. my B.

[Marchegiano]

I can field that one. All posters contribute in their own style, as we might expect is the case. I produced my list as a means of conveying my thoughts, as a frequent concert goer, regarding the relative merits of the fighters being mentioned here.
If nothing else, to serve as a brief departure from accretions about management strategies and career decisions being reflected as "ducks", and various other pissing contests.

Lewis retired as an older gentleman while still in possession of the one historical world championship. Well done, I say. The decision to do so is one of several aspects of his career that make him an ATG.

I get that, I was more referring to Z asking us for lists.

I think every member here appreciates the fact that you like to keep organized lists, it is very much reflected in your thoughts on subjects too. It's cool you're aware of it, I wasn't so sure you were aware of your orderly nature. What you call a mess I call a marvel of order kinda deal.




As to Lewis, you went 90s-25 so fair dues. I was 2000-2025. He might have been capping it off then but stopping his record at 2000 means I couldn't even include Evander.


Grant- I'm actually hella Grant friendly and just see him as missed potential. I give Lewis **** for not fighting Ruiz but I do not hold Grant against his record at all, fair win but since Grant was a piss showing night of and didn't do anything after it's not really worth mention against any other resume.

Botha, fine, underrated these days, Botha was top notch in two sports but great at neither. I don't mind seeing him, I think that's why he got some many big fights but never looked into him myself or did any sort of retrospective.

Tua- I ****ing love David Tuaman Tuanator Tua. I hear he's working on a method of transplanting Tuatanium to his countrymen's chins.

Hasim Rahman was like Grant in a lot of ways just less embarrassing. Kill or be killed, the back and forth with a guy who never does get a resume but did pick up an L from a man Lewis avoided just doesn't look great against Usyk, Wlad's, or even Joshua's run imo. Especially since you do have a line there. Rahman lost to Wlad who lost to Josh who lost to Usyk who beat Fury who also beat Wlad.

Mike - Nah doe, no credit. His post fight interview says it all. This is a cash grab as the end of two careers. I don't hardly deal in de-merit so for me it's just simply no credit.

Vitali - Probably his single best win given what comes after. For 2000-2003 Lennox.




So really it's not a lack of respect for how Lennox went out. I respect it a lot actually. It was just the other day I said something like the men who knew it was time to retire are a short list of the very best boxers to have ever fought. It's just that it's a 3 year run with a loss to a man who'd lose to the man who lost to the man etc. Hard to rate him higher over guys who also avenged Lennox's loss, and stuck around longer with just as many belts. What i mean to say is sure Lewis proved he could have won but he was being lazy and it's hard to rate that over dudes who were not lazy during that time.

[Marchegiano]

Oh **** **** me Will I just got it.

Some time's I'm slow and ******



Z's attempting to get at the criteria before the principle is resolved. It's really neither here nor there just more a thought process.



You were plain, I was just dumb. My bad.

[JAB5239]

Just to clarify, I see some King fighters I know of on V's resume but when I check if it was a DK fight, King's not listed.

Byrd and Adamek were not with King for Vitali. I'm not sure Vitali ever worked with King. He may have simply been leary of that promoter.



As far as I know the K2 boys are fairly shrewd.



While I do doubt Vitali was scared of Hasim, also, I kinda think Rahman might win that fight. ****, i thought he might beat Wlad though too. I may be too Rahman friendly.

TBF, Rahman's entire career is kill or be killed and Wlad had been not too distantly in the past dropped by less heavy hands. He hadn't shown a consistent ability to stay safe yet. Or I hadn't noticed it would be more accurate probably.

I know Ruiz shut him down but Quiet Man gets no respect because his style was sleepy not really because he ******. the x2 and often cheated HW was a better clinch artist than any. On stalling you out, I'd put Ruiz ahead of k2 and Johnson. Best to ever stall them out. So, for me, the Ruiz loss isn't really as telling as it should be.

I didn't realize Wlad was finna join Ruiz style clinching with Lewis style jab. Hell, Larry style at time. Larry/Lewey jab with Ruiz stalls ... murder ... but I didn't know yet.




Anyway, love that we're in a period of history I lived and wasn't just like 8 or some such. I remember TF out of Rahman-Ruiz. ****, I didn't even expect the east. I thought the names were going to be Rahman and Ruiz ffs. Well, tbh, and Toney. my B.

Vits had to work with King for the Sam Peter fight.

[JAB5239]

Oh **** **** me Will I just got it.

Some time's I'm slow and ******



Z's attempting to get at the criteria before the principle is resolved. It's really neither here nor there just more a thought process.



You were plain, I was just dumb. My bad.

Criteria for what though? While threads evolve over time this one hasn't even gotten started on its original purpose which is why does Lewis get accused of ducking, even though he won and retired, but a certain faction of posters that do this simply ignore Vits completely avoiding Rahman and the turd org know as the WBC sat by breaking there own rules and allowing it to happen. That's all I'm trying to get at. If he wants list and criteria he should start another thread instead of trying to hijack this one. Wisp made a list and that cool, but he idnt the one accusing Lennox of ducking a rematch with Klitschko.

[QueensburyRules]

Vits had to work with King for the Sam Peter fight.

- - King was forced by WBC to fight Vit or be stripped of Peter's title.

Lewie retired the day before he was due to be stripped by WBC, so what grade U in back then?

[Willow The Wisp]

- - King was forced by WBC to fight Vit or be stripped of Peter's title.

Lewie retired the day before he was due to be stripped by WBC, so what grade U in back then?

Lewis retired as THE World's Champion and never came back. Only the 3rd ever to do that in the modern era.

So who cares what the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO, AAO, WBU, WAA or the XYZ does with their plastic title belts? They do whatever they please with their titles anyway, regardless of what fighters do in the ring.

Meh.

[Marchegiano]

Vits had to work with King for the Sam Peter fight.

All you have to do is tell me you know not think and I'd take your word for it.

As in I don't think it's the greatest resource but lacking anything else to check with, I checked Boxrec for the King fighters, Peter included, Don King doesn't appear on the promoter's list.

Peter: https://boxrec.com/en/event/559381/1335062

Adamek: https://boxrec.com/en/event/628000/1589777

Byrd: https://boxrec.com/en/event/16642/23661


TBH, I wouldn't even be great at remembering who was and wasn't a King fighter. If I'm wrong, my bad. I think Byrd was a King fighter ... ... I clicked a bunch of them I thought maybe.



If you remember or know for some other reason that's cool, I'd not argue, it's just matter of fact I see no evidence Vitali was willing to work with King.



Checked pressers too but didn't see him. Doesn't mean much I'm just saying I have or at least had a reason to believe maybe V don't like King is all that was.