Naoya Inoue's place in history

[Anomalocaris]

Harada (a lovely man) has those remarkable wins over Jofre but he also lost.

As it stands Inue has never been defeated in four divisions.

ATG full stop.

[solidman]

Harada (a lovely man) has those remarkable wins over Jofre but he also lost.

As it stands Inue has never been defeated in four divisions.

ATG full stop.

You are probably right that Inoue is already an all time great.

[RuleOfTheSpear]

Inoue is a guaranteed HOF. But not ATG.

Reminds me of Prince Naseem Hamed who stopped almost everybody but failed against a p4p fighter.

Just like Inoue, Hamed got dropped too by Kelley but also stopped Kelley and I can't help but remember the stark similarities.

He'll get tested soon for the first time against a p4p fighter in Nakatani. There's also Espinoza who is not p4p fighter but we'll get there.

[QueensburyRules]

Inoue is a guaranteed HOF. But not ATG.

Reminds me of Prince Naseem Hamed who stopped almost everybody but failed against a p4p fighter.

Just like Inoue, Hamed got dropped too by Kelley but also stopped Kelley and I can't help but remember the stark similarities.

He'll get tested soon for the first time against a p4p fighter in Nakatani. There's also Espinoza who is not p4p fighter but we'll get there.

- - Naseem was ill disciplined and relied to much on awkward natural talent.

Inoue is a classic boxer puncher with a much more agile mind and superior talent.

[JAB5239]

- - Naseem was ill disciplined and relied to much on awkward natural talent.

Inoue is a classic boxer puncher with a much more agile mind and superior talent.

Agree with all of this except "superior talent". He's certainly greater, no doubt about that.

[DeeMoney]

Inoue is a guaranteed HOF. But not ATG.

Reminds me of Prince Naseem Hamed who stopped almost everybody but failed against a p4p fighter.

Just like Inoue, Hamed got dropped too by Kelley but also stopped Kelley and I can't help but remember the stark similarities.

He'll get tested soon for the first time against a p4p fighter in Nakatani. There's also Espinoza who is not p4p fighter but we'll get there.

I see what you are driving at with the Hamed comparison, I think that resume comparison will be hard to hold up though.

Prince had a decent run leading up to his first defeat, but he was just 27 when he lost to MAB and basically called it quits right after that. He lost to an ATG while in his prime and left the game after that. Inoue's already 32 and probably won't land a P4P opponent that you list until hes approaching his mid 30s- and most likely starting to push past his prime years. That being written, I look at his resume as being better than Hamed's already.

[billeau2]

Harada’s wins over Jofre stand out as better than Inoue’s wins, but Harada also lost to lesser fighters and in a head-to-head match up I think Inoue wins. Harada was a relentless pressure fighter very similar to Inoue but not as much power. As Dee said, there are no Jofre level opponents for Inoue to measure him against.

Shades of Hollyfield... Beats Tyson twice, Bowe once, but if we count the losses it does alter the calculus.

[billeau2]

Inoue has the numbers so far, to at least be considered, for nomination as a great fighter... I do not think much of the HOF, for which Inoue is a shoo in, the real Gold Ring is ATG status. He may have to take a chance and jump up at some point. Sometimes a fighter has to go where the action is. One thing he has going for him is his depth. Hamed was, at the end of the day a very athletic, undisciplined puncher. He got beat and set off the path by a guy who just could hang in there and box him expertly enough to get there with his own punch. When Hamed couldn't find a crack he fell...

Unlike Hamed Inoue has a giant toolbox. To me this means he can make adjustments and find a way to get his power into play. With that said some great men with skills, organization and a punch, have fallen to Pan, the God of wine and chaos! Alexis to Pryor, Duran to Ian B... Like most men of smaller stature Inoue's power is more conditional than that of a great Middleweight, to heavyweight Puncher. Power is the ****e (Dune). It is an equalizer and major advantage in the lighter divisions where so many punches can be thrown.

If Apollo was boxing's original patron saint, representing organization and technical excellence... Then Pan is his constant opponent, chaos with a mean streak. Robinson was considered the best by many, but some felt Armstrong was better. These fighters seem to represent these fundamental differences.

Before even comparing him to Harada let us see how he does in his own era.

[Willow The Wisp]

Japan, already long noted for their homegrown fighting styles of Sumo and Jujitsu, began it's western boxing history in 1854, when an American boxer-sailor named Matthew Perry landed at Shimoda, Shizuoka soon after the Convention of Kanagawa, which opened Japan up to trade and diplomatic relations with the United States. At that time, American sailors often engaged in sparring matches on board their ships, with their fists wrapped in thin leather. These were the first recorded examples of boxing demonstrated in Japan; and the Japanese were dully impressed by what they witnessed; and it was not long before the sport, it's rules and techniques, caught on throughout the empire.

Bear in mind, that this was a full 68 years before Karate came to mainland Japan!

That's right. Modern Karate developed when Gichin Funakoshi (1868 - 1957), a school teacher and student of Okinawan karate masters Yasutsune Itosu and Yasutsune Azato, was invited to Japan by the Japanese Department of Education to demonstrate Karate in Tokyo, in 1922.
By that time, Boxing was THE major professional sport not only in Japan, but in China (Zhili Clique, Hunan Clique, Guizhou Clique and Anhui Clique), French Indochina, the Philippines, the Korean Empire and the Kingdom of Siam, in what for many, is a seldom mentioned history.

The first important all-Japanese card was held in Tsukiji, Tokyo in 1887. The first boxing gym established to train local talent was the Meriken Training Institute in Ishikawachō, Yokohama, operated by James Hōjō and Toranosuke Saitō, opened in 1896; and the first tutorial book available throughout Japan, Bōgeki Jizai Seiyō Kentōjutsu, was published in 1900.

Yujiro Watanabe, a noted boxer, went abroad in 1906 to settle in San Francisco, in order to learn the finer points of the art from American masters who included Olympian Sam Berger. He returned to Japan where he became known as "The Father of modern Japanese Boxing". He established Nippon Kentō Club in Shimomeguro, Meguro, Tokyo, on December 25, 1921, as the boxing scene in Tokyo was exploding.
The school turned out Sadayuki Ogino, one of Japan's first sporting stars, along with Kinzaburō Yokoyama, Fuji Okamoto and Kintarō Usuda who became Japan's first official national champions, as stipulated by the Nippon Kentō Club, starting in 1922.

Packey " The Speed Demon" O'Gatty (Born Pasquale Agati in Cannitello, Calabria, Italy) finished up his 65 bout Featherweight career touring Asian countries, landing in Tokyo in 1928, where he defeated several of Japan's best.
The All-Japan Professional Kentō Association, later renamed the Japan Pro Boxing Association (JPBA), was founded in February 1931 in order to establish national and regional championships and promote the development of professional boxers nationally.
Japan's boxing was interrupted by the outbreak of World War 2, and the first Japanese championships after the war were held in 1947.

Yoshio Shirai became the nation's very first World Champion on May 19, 1952, by defeating Dado Marino of Hawaii over 15 rounds, for the National Boxing Association World Flyweight title in Tokyo.
Japan has since fielded many outstanding professionals, particularly in the lower to mid weight classes.

The best of these includes, in my humble opinion:


1. Masahiko "Fighting" Harada, 1960-70
2. Naoya Inoue, 2012-Current. (And rising like the Sun)
3. Masao Oba, 1966-73
4. Tsuneo "Piston" Horiguchi, 1933-50
5. Hiroyuki Ebihara, 1959-69
6. Hiroshi Kobayashi, 1962-71
7. Hiroshi Horiguchi, 1943-54
8. Junto Nakatani, 2015-Current
9. Yoshio Shirai, 1943-55
10.Jiro Watanabe, 1979-86
11.Takeshi Sasazaki, 1934-50
12.Koichi Wajima, 1968-77
13.Shinsuke Yamanaka, 2006-18
14.Kenshiro Teraji, 2014-Current
15.Tomoki Kameda, 2008-24
16.Kazuto Ioka, 2009-24
17.Kuniaki Shibata, 1965-77
18.Daisuke Naito, 1996-10
19.Shozo Saijo, 1964-71
20.Takashi Uchiyama, 2005-16
21.Takahiro Ao, 2003-18
22.Toshiaki Nishioka, 1994-12
23.Takashi Miura, 2003-17
24.Guts Ishimatsu, 1966-78
25.Andy Hiraoka, 2013-24

Hope this helps to establish a basis for this conversation.

[The Big Dunn]

I don't think (at least for me) it’s quite time to rate Inoue's place in an all time sense yet. But maybe this can give us an idea where he may end up. Has Naoya surpassed Fighting Harada as Japan's greatest boxer? I've seen lists and even an article published on Boxingscene that believe so. I'm not well versed in the divisions below featherweight, but I know Harada's resume and best wins are excellent. What say you?

My boy. Hope all is well.

IMO his place in history is solidified. I can’t say he is better than Harada because I knowledge of him and his career is limited.

Inoue’s resume is great. His ability to move up and retain power is special. I also looking forward to him b Nakatani.

IMO, right below Roy and Floyd, with Usyk, Bhop and Manny in terms of best since the 4 kings era.

I think if he could get up to LW and beat Tank, you have to put him alongside Roy and Floyd, maybe even above them.