What Is Your Opinion About Jake Lamotta? Was He An ATG?

[dan_cov]

No, I don't think so.

A good fighter who was a very tough fight stylistically for SRR but he's not an all-time great.

[solidman]

Offering no opinion on LaMotta, just examining the logic:

Is Buster Douglas an all time great because he beat a prime Mike Tyson?

Also I've seen it stated here several times that my GOAT SRR was not the best version of himself at MW, is this a consideration when thinking about LaMotta?

He also beat Marcel Cerdan. I thought Robinson was a great Middleweight. He won the title 5 times. When i watch LaMotta, i honestly think he was a great fighter.

[JeBron Lamez]

He also beat Marcel Cerdan. I thought Robinson was a great Middleweight. He won the title 5 times. When i watch LaMotta, i honestly think he was a great fighter.

I agree with your conclusion but was talking about the reliability of the particular logic used to get there.

Bestowing anyone with ATG status based on such logic opens the door for all kinds of stuff, one example would be Douglas as I mentioned.

Another would be Hasim Rahman, should he be lauded as one of the best fighters ever because he beat a prime Lennox Lewis?

[Anomalocaris]

He also beat Marcel Cerdan. I thought Robinson was a great Middleweight. He won the title 5 times. When i watch LaMotta, i honestly think he was a great fighter.

But to win it five times Ray had to lose it.

I think Ray's middle peak was the St Valentine's Day massacre.

As for LaMotta beating Cerdan he was injured.

I think D*ck Tiger would have beat Jake in a fantasy match.

[solidman]

I agree with your conclusion but was talking about the reliability of the particular logic used to get there.

Bestowing anyone with ATG status based on such logic opens the door for all kinds of stuff, one example would be Douglas as I mentioned.

Another would be Hasim Rahman, should he be lauded as one of the best fighters ever because he beat a prime Lennox Lewis?

I know what you are saying, but it could be looked at another way. Sugar Ray robinson was one of the best p4p fighters ever whereas Tyson and Lewis were not. But i agree with what you say you can't call someone an all time great because of one win.

[billeau2]

Lamotta was in fact great in some regards. I never like to take an absolute opinion on greatness... To me a fighter is either in the consideration, or not. But what was so great about Lamotta?

1. One of the best defensive fighters... Yup you heard me correctly. Lamotta had the last laugh. Don't believe me? Well tough guy first for yourself try to take punches. Now, go look and see how many fighters can just take punches. Especially in the middle weight division and up. It is a total fiction. The guys that took punches also took canvas! Lamotta used his techniques to deflect, to take the steam out of shots that would otherwise drop a man. This allowed him to attack the way he intended to do.

2. A smart tactician. Lamotta used his engine to its fullest capacity. He developed a style that made him formidable and capable relying on his strengths.

3. Lamotta did not just beat one great fighter... He fought and beat a general level of compeition that was stellar! Middle weight and welter are the two most competative divisions, talent wise, and the fighters of Jakes time were in shape, well skilled, tough as nails and wanted to win!

[DeeMoney]

ATG is too low a curve to ask.



Def top 100

Should be top 50 I'd assume

Personally top 20

I could do 10 without Jake but def wouldn't argue with anyone who has him in 10

5's a bit much.

GOAT's crazy talk.

I definitely don't rank him as highly as you do (top 20) but credit to you for putting some numbers to it. ATG is hard pin down as a term. I probably have him in that 60-70 range all time pound for pound, and top 15 (maybe top 10) as an all time MW. If that makes him an ATG then so be it.

[JeBron Lamez]

Lamotta was in fact great in some regards. I never like to take an absolute opinion on greatness... To me a fighter is either in the consideration, or not. But what was so great about Lamotta?

1. One of the best defensive fighters... Yup you heard me correctly. Lamotta had the last laugh. Don't believe me? Well tough guy first for yourself try to take punches. Now, go look and see how many fighters can just take punches. Especially in the middle weight division and up. It is a total fiction. The guys that took punches also took canvas! Lamotta used his techniques to deflect, to take the steam out of shots that would otherwise drop a man. This allowed him to attack the way he intended to do.

2. A smart tactician. Lamotta used his engine to its fullest capacity. He developed a style that made him formidable and capable relying on his strengths.

3. Lamotta did not just beat one great fighter... He fought and beat a general level of compeition that was stellar! Middle weight and welter are the two most competative divisions, talent wise, and the fighters of Jakes time were in shape, well skilled, tough as nails and wanted to win!

There are many examples on film of legendary fighters, trainers & I even recall one fighter's wife (although I can't recall who) saying how despite the fact that they'd have a hard time coming up with a compliment for him as a person, they could do nothing but compliment Jake LaMotta as a fighter.

[Anomalocaris]

In my opinion he loses to -

Fitz.
Greb.
Walker.
Burley.
Tiger.
Griffith.
Monzon.
Hagler.
Hopkins.
GGG.

[IronDanHamza]

He also beat Marcel Cerdan. I thought Robinson was a great Middleweight. He won the title 5 times. When i watch LaMotta, i honestly think he was a great fighter.

He also beat Bert Lytell, Holman Williams, Fritzie Zivic multiple times, Jose Basora multiple times, Bob Satterfield, amongst others.

Of course Jake Lamotta was an ATG fighter. This may be the first time I've even seen that questioned.