What Is Your Opinion About Jake Lamotta? Was He An ATG?

[Mr Mitts]

I don't think Hopkins beats Lamotta. Hopkins had a girlie punch. Jake could and did walk right through Robinson's hardest shots. Jake won't even know somebody is punching him. Hopkin's won fights by putting the audiences to sleep instead of the opponent. The judges must have taken amphetamines to stay awake. Jake is hard to get to sleep. Hopkins does not have enough to keep Jake off IMO.

[JAB5239]

I don't think Hopkins beats Lamotta. Hopkins had a girlie punch. Jake could and did walk right through Robinson's hardest shots. Jake won't even know somebody is punching him. Hopkin's won fights by putting the audiences to sleep instead of the opponent. The judges must have taken amphetamines to stay awake. Jake is hard to get to sleep. Hopkins does not have enough to keep Jake off IMO.

Thing is Jake wasn't a puncher either. As great as he was, wouldn't Lamotta be a draw in Hokins time? The only real beatings he took were to Robinson. All time I'd say they're pretty close, but I'd have to look at all their fights again. Head to head is believe this is a competitive fight.

[Anomalocaris]

Thing is Jake wasn't a puncher either. As great as he was, wouldn't Lamotta be a draw in Hokins time? The only real beatings he took were to Robinson. All time I'd say they're pretty close, but I'd have to look at all their fights again. Head to head is believe this is a competitive fight.

As I have said before Raging Bull made Jake out to be a devastating puncher when he simply was not.

More of an attritional hitter.

[Mr Mitts]

Thing is Jake wasn't a puncher either. As great as he was, wouldn't Lamotta be a draw in Hokins time? The only real beatings he took were to Robinson. All time I'd say they're pretty close, but I'd have to look at all their fights again. Head to head is believe this is a competitive fight.

Jake is not a big puncher--realistically probably about even with Hopkins--but Jake has other ways to drain fighters just like Ho'kins does from the outside. It is he who should have been nick named the mauler.

In those days Hopkins would be over in murder's row fighting other residents 6 times apiece. I don't think the fight is a big venue sellout anytime except now.

[Willie Pep 229]

I have always heard as well, that LaMotta wasn't a big puncher.

But I don't understand the complaint about Raging Bull. I didn't think the film portrayed LaMotta as such. I thought the film's emphasis was on LaMotta taking hard punches not delivering them.

[QueensburyRules]

As I have said before Raging Bull made Jake out to be a devastating puncher when he simply was not.

More of an attritional hitter.

- - Don't think Hollywood ever made a decent boxing movie.

Early TV did with Requiem for a Heavyweight written by one of the most creative media writers in History, Rod Sterling-

***Fictional aging heavyweight Louis Mountain Rivera (Anthony Quinn) is felled by young Cassius Clay, the future Muhammad Ali, and finds his professional career over. His manipulative manager (Jackie Gleason) owes money on bets placed against Rivera, and convinces him to become a wrestler.

Also introduced soon to be legendary Jack Palance who boxed. Clay was the Olympic Gold Medalist still in his training pants getting knocked down by Sonny Banks when with it was filmed.
Requiem-for-a-Heavyweight-e1591295983616.jpg?w=620&h=360&crop=1.jpg

[max baer]

Lamotta was in fact great in some regards. I never like to take an absolute opinion on greatness... To me a fighter is either in the consideration, or not. But what was so great about Lamotta?

I agree very much bill, you talk a lot of sense. I think one thing we can all agree on here, all of us, and that is that we hold all these guys in the upmost esteem.
Knowing what they put themselves through to be in condition and the drive they need to propel themselves without team mates would in team sports.
I think we can all agree that all these men deserve nothing but respect.
Me personally I always held middle weights in great esteem because most men in their twenties will be middle weight. At least all healthy men will be. I recall a trainer saying that a young foreman found it hard to get challenged in the gym such was his strength and size. So he didn't develop a good enough defence because he rarely needed to use it in the gym. Whereas nearly every young man in the gym falls into around middle weight so to get to the top is so damn hard in those weights especially.
Do you agree that being great at the middle weights is extremely hard with the sheer number of challengers at that weight?

[max baer]

- - Don't think Hollywood ever made a decent boxing movie.

Early TV did with Requiem for a Heavyweight written by one of the most creative media writers in History, Rod Sterling-

***Fictional aging heavyweight Louis Mountain Rivera (Anthony Quinn) is felled by young Cassius Clay, the future Muhammad Ali, and finds his professional career over. His manipulative manager (Jackie Gleason) owes money on bets placed against Rivera, and convinces him to become a wrestler.

Also introduced soon to be legendary Jack Palance who boxed. Clay was the Olympic Gold Medalist still in his training pants getting knocked down by Sonny Banks when with it was filmed.
Requiem-for-a-Heavyweight-e1591295983616.jpg?w=620&h=360&crop=1.jpg

I am currently searching for that! I love old movies and tv dramas like that. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...h_boxing_films I am currently looking at old british boxing movies as some of them are pure gold!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_el9xm6pxW4 is this the one?
Actors back then done so much acting with their voices alone, perhaps that was from starting in radio because their voices acted as well as their faces.

[billeau2]

I agree very much bill, you talk a lot of sense. I think one thing we can all agree on here, all of us, and that is that we hold all these guys in the upmost esteem.
Knowing what they put themselves through to be in condition and the drive they need to propel themselves without team mates would in team sports.
I think we can all agree that all these men deserve nothing but respect.
Me personally I always held middle weights in great esteem because most men in their twenties will be middle weight. At least all healthy men will be. I recall a trainer saying that a young foreman found it hard to get challenged in the gym such was his strength and size. So he didn't develop a good enough defence because he rarely needed to use it in the gym. Whereas nearly every young man in the gym falls into around middle weight so to get to the top is so damn hard in those weights especially.
Do you agree that being great at the middle weights is extremely hard with the sheer number of challengers at that weight?

Absolutely! I make that same point you did frequently... Welterweight and Middle both: two qualites converge... The first is sheer numbers, if we consider the whole world Welter even more so, while in the developed world Middle weight as well.. and at Welter, even more at middle weight, real power comes into play. You of course have guys who can hit lower, but real bone thudding power is a rarity in the lower weight classes. A strong middle weight? Like Julian Jackson has the athletic potential to be a cornerback, and the power to rattle anyone's cage.

An d yes this has to be considered when we look at great fighters in these weight classes.

[billeau2]

I have always heard as well, that LaMotta wasn't a big puncher.

But I don't understand the complaint about Raging Bull. I didn't think the film portrayed LaMotta as such. I thought the film's emphasis was on LaMotta taking hard punches not delivering them.

Casuals often confuse pressure with punchers. Was Marciano a big puncher? Not really, but he hit hard as h e l l and kept his attack coming. Some punchers apply pressure extremely well and vice versa. Liston and Louis were punchers who never had to do things many people think all fighters have to do... Louis never did not catch a man because his feet were slow, anymore than Liston never didn't finish an opponent because he did not cut the ring down.

Lamotta and Marciano perfected a style of pressuring the opponent eventually causing them to break down and when they did, both men hit hard enough to take advantage of it.