Sonny Liston one of the greatest

[crold1]

LIAR. Cliff wrote:

• April 1, 2000:
  Lost to Chris Byrd by RTD (Round Technical Decision) in the 9th round, Byrd was ranked #10 at Heavyweight.
• June 21, 2003:
  Lost to Lennox Lewis by TKO (Technical Knockout) in the 6th round, Lewis was the Champion at Heavyweight.
• April 24, 2004:
  Won against Corrie Sanders by TKO in the 8th round, Sanders was ranked #3 at Heavyweight.
• December 11, 2004:
  Won against Danny Williams by TKO in the 8th round, Williams was ranked #9 at Heavyweight.
• October 11, 2008:
  Won against Sam Peter by RTD in the 8th round, Peter was ranked #2 at Heavyweight.
• March 21, 2009:
  Won against Juan Carlos Gomez by TKO in the 9th round, Gomez was ranked #9 at Heavyweight.
• September 26, 2009:
  Won against Chris Arreola by RTD in the 10th round, Arreola was ranked #6 at Heavyweight.
• December 12, 2009:
  Won against Kevin Johnson by UD (Unanimous Decision) in 12 rounds, Johnson was ranked #10 at Heavyweight.
• September 10, 2011:
  Won against Tomasz Adamek by TKO in the 10th round, Adamek was ranked #2 at Heavyweight.

He missed Solis who was ranked #9 by ring magazine, but later admitted not checking the on line ratings of the ring magazine. His way of saving face. I told him to take a sanp shot of the April 2011 ratings, he never did....

What ever, clown. I count way more a then 5 .

- Dr. Z

That’s a flat lie. I posted several images of rankings pages including the relevant rankings for the fight. It was not to save face. My research was based on print issues. I conceded all along that Solis could have moved in and out of the online Ring rankings between issues based on the timing of the Vitali fight. That’s exactly what happened (ranked 10th, immediately fell out). Solis never made it into a print top ten for Ring.

hi everyone else. Was checking in and saw this silly nonsense again so thought I’d weigh in

[QueensburyRules]

Much as I love Joe you are right.

Futch kept Frazier well away from an ancient Liston for good reason.

Prime for prime?

Liston KO6.

- - Liston was shot to shyte by the time Joe arrived to clean out the Ali stink.

What grade was I in then?

[billeau2]

That’s a flat lie. I posted several images of rankings pages including the April rankings. It was not to save face. My research was based on print issues. I conceded all along that Solis could have moved in and out of the online Ring rankings between issues based on the timing of the Vitali fight. That’s exactly what happened (ranked 10th, immediately fell out). Solis never made it into a print top ten for Ring.

hi everyone else. Was checking in and saw this silly nonsense again so thought I’d weigh in

Good for you! I wish more people would come fourth who had knowledge and call out the ignorance.

[QueensburyRules]

That’s a flat lie. I posted several images of rankings pages including the April rankings. It was not to save face. My research was based on print issues. I conceded all along that Solis could have moved in and out of the online Ring rankings between issues based on the timing of the Vitali fight. That’s exactly what happened (ranked 10th, immediately fell out). Solis never made it into a print top ten for Ring.

hi everyone else. Was checking in and saw this silly nonsense again so thought I’d weigh in

- - Well, Ring weren't ever known for consistency in their rating format due to long time financial difficulties and lack of organizational skills, but thanks to Nat, they was the go to for fans until boxrec came along with algorithm ratings.

I personally go by my own rankings, and Gold Medalist Solis had a huge push by Cubanos who thought he could clean up the Heavies instead of being a one punch victim of a phantom punch aka Ali/Liston 2 in Podunk Maine.

[crold1]

Good for you! I wish more people would come fourth who had knowledge and call out the ignorance.

I couldn’t figure out how to post images on here for a bit but eventually did. Right at the top of page 33 of this thread. So, again, he’s just lying.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...yweight/page33

I also wrote out several months of rankings with the cover date and the rankings date for the issue that covered the dates before and after the Solis fight prior to that. Someone eventually found an online update in archive that showed him moving in online. Never made it to print.

I couldn’t figure out if he was trolling or just incredibly thick and blocked his posts but apparently that’s not working anymore.

I provided this at the time:

Yes, you could all be wrong strictly based on what was in the print issues. I can't figure out how to get the pictures to upload so I'll type it out:

April cover date, Rankings for period ended Jan 23, 2011, page 18:

Champ: Wlad
1. Vitali (record listed at 41-2, 38 KO)
2. Haye
3. Povetkin
4. Adamek
5. Chagaev
6. Chambers
7. Boytsov
8. Valuev
9. Dimitrenko
10. Arreola

May Cover Date, rankings as of Feb 20, 2011, page 18:

Champ: Wlad
1. Vitali (record listed at 41-2, 38 KO)
2. Haye
3. Povetkin
4. Adamek
5. Chagaev
6. Chambers
7. Boytsov
8. Valuev
9. Dimitrenko
10. Arreola

June Cover Date, rankings as of March 20, 2011, page 18:

Champ: Wlad
1. Vitali (record listed updated to 42-2, 39 KO)
2. Haye
3. Povetkin
4. Adamek
5. Chagaev
6. Chambers
7. Boytsov
8. Dimitrenko
9. Arreola
10. Pulev

Page 17, ratings analysis notes Valuev exited due to inactivity. If Solis moved in online for that, it is conceivable he was 10 for a minute between issues strictly online but there is no evidence of it in the magazine and no mention of Solis entering and exiting. The closest date I could find in wayback was 2/26: https://web.archive.org/web/20110221...49-heavyweight

No Solis.

if there was a brief change prior to the fight, it wasn’t recorded by then. That wouldn't be an error in my work because the work was based solely on print issues. The fight result is on page 98.

[crold1]

- - Well, Ring weren't ever known for consistency in their rating format due to long time financial difficulties and lack of organizational skills, but thanks to Nat, they was the go to for fans until boxrec came along with algorithm ratings.

I personally go by my own rankings, and Gold Medalist Solis had a huge push by Cubanos who thought he could clean up the Heavies instead of being a one punch victim of a phantom punch aka Ali/Liston 2 in Podunk Maine.

That’s cool. The debate was whether Solis was ranked in a printed issue of Ring.

he wasn’t.

And Battling Nelson can tell you: I always thought Solis ****** as a pro. The one there was in the ammy’s would have been a beast. We never saw that guy. We just saw a fat guy who didnt care but needed the money

[Dr Z]

I couldn’t figure out how to post images on here for a bit but eventually did. Right at the top of page 33 of this thread. So, again, he’s just lying.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...yweight/page33

I also wrote out several months of rankings with the cover date and the rankings date for the issue that covered the dates before and after the Solis fight prior to that. Someone eventually found an online update in archive that showed him moving in online. Never made it to print.

I couldn’t figure out if he was trolling or just incredibly thick and blocked his posts but apparently that’s not working anymore.

I provided this at the time:

Yes, you could all be wrong strictly based on what was in the print issues. I can't figure out how to get the pictures to upload so I'll type it out:

April cover date, Rankings for period ended Jan 23, 2011, page 18:

Champ: Wlad
1. Vitali (record listed at 41-2, 38 KO)
2. Haye
3. Povetkin
4. Adamek
5. Chagaev
6. Chambers
7. Boytsov
8. Valuev
9. Dimitrenko
10. Arreola

May Cover Date, rankings as of Feb 20, 2011, page 18:

Champ: Wlad
1. Vitali (record listed at 41-2, 38 KO)
2. Haye
3. Povetkin
4. Adamek
5. Chagaev
6. Chambers
7. Boytsov
8. Valuev
9. Dimitrenko
10. Arreola

June Cover Date, rankings as of March 20, 2011, page 18:

Champ: Wlad
1. Vitali (record listed updated to 42-2, 39 KO)
2. Haye
3. Povetkin
4. Adamek
5. Chagaev
6. Chambers
7. Boytsov
8. Dimitrenko
9. Arreola
10. Pulev

Page 17, ratings analysis notes Valuev exited due to inactivity. If Solis moved in online for that, it is conceivable he was 10 for a minute between issues strictly online but there is no evidence of it in the magazine and no mention of Solis entering and exiting. The closest date I could find in wayback was 2/26: https://web.archive.org/web/20110221...49-heavyweight

No Solis.

if there was a brief change prior to the fight, it wasn’t recorded by then. That wouldn't be an error in my work because the work was based solely on print issues. The fight result is on page 98.

Whatever you say there might have been an error.... Welcome back. I thought you exited due to board politics? I never saw the photo I requested by the way.

I say agian, It was a good article you wrote.

[billeau2]

Liston would have crushed Frazier in a round

Foreman learned quite a bit from Sonny! My own opinion? Liston would be a surgeon. His attacks were premeditated, he threw all punches, was defensively responsible, never let a man off the hook when he had him ready to go. Sonny really used technical aspects intelligently. Foreman was more instinctive, not nearly as careful, or precise in his methods, though he did cut the ring down and control shoulders very well... Foreman looped his shots much more, depended upon brute strength and did not have the engine Liston had.

I do not believe Liston would have gone tooth and nail with Ron Lyle as an example...

[Anomalocaris]

Foreman learned quite a bit from Sonny! My own opinion? Liston would be a surgeon. His attacks were premeditated, he threw all punches, was defensively responsible, never let a man off the hook when he had him ready to go. Sonny really used technical aspects intelligently. Foreman was more instinctive, not nearly as careful, or precise in his methods, though he did cut the ring down and control shoulders very well... Foreman looped his shots much more, depended upon brute strength and did not have the engine Liston had.

I do not believe Liston would have gone tooth and nail with Ron Lyle as an example...

Good post although to be fair post Ali George was in a mental fog and simply not the same fighter.

I believe the version that decimated Frazier and Norton would have done the same to Lyle as tough as he was.

As for prime Sonny v prime Joe it would have been brutal.

Frazier's syle was not suited to Liston's at all and styles make fights.

Bonavena was not Sonny.

[Willow The Wisp]

- - Best of Kbros era infinitely bigger, stronger, and better schooled that the bankrupt Liston era when boxing was perceived as crooked as it gets...double duh duh duh, duh*infinity...

Pro wrestlers, Power lifters, Body builders, Sumo Wrestlers, NFL Offensive Linemen, NBA Centers; also "infinitely bigger, stronger".....Can't fight a lick, especially in the ring with all the shortcuts blocked off.

Sonny Liston, Cleve Wolliams, Zora Folley would Pele Reid the stiff and upright Vitali Klitschko, I'm afraid.