Fury's retirements and the lineal championship

[kafkod]

As is your whole stance on this topic.

Of course my opinion on lineal ranking is irrelevant. How could it not be when lineal ranking itself is completely irrelevant?

Watch what happens to the imaginary lineal title now that Fury, Arum and Brick Top can't use it to bamboozle and rip of gullible casuals. It will fade back into obscurity and be forgotten again.

[JAB5239]

Of course my opinion on lineal ranking is irrelevant. How could it not be when lineal ranking itself is completely irrelevant?

Watch what happens to the imaginary lineal title now that Fury, Arum and Brick Top can't use it to bamboozle and rip of gullible casuals. It will fade back into obscurity and be forgotten again.

Lol, you are the casual fan. And lineal will never go away because it can always be traced back. But you go ahead and worship the ABC's and there super champion, regular champion, emeritus champion, super duper champion and whatever else they need to call something to sell it to gullible fans like yourself. Tell me, who is the WBA regular world champion? And are they equal the the WBC super world champion? After all, they both world champions right? How many worlds are you living in again with all these world champions?

[Nash out]

None of the belts matter. The three titles that matter are not even belts. 1. The Lineal. 2. The Nash. 3. The Face of Boxing. Nash out - His Majesty. Nash resides on Planet Earth. He is also known as Dr. Boxing and the Great Nash.

[Willie Pep 229]

Of course my opinion on lineal ranking is irrelevant. How could it not be when lineal ranking itself is completely irrelevant?

Watch what happens to the imaginary lineal title now that Fury, Arum and Brick Top can't use it to bamboozle and rip of gullible casuals. It will fade back into obscurity and be forgotten again.

I think you're in for a disappointment.

At some point the SBs will screw over Usyk, by trying to pick his pocket. They always do. He will refuse and they will strip him. Then he will sing a different tune about the lineal title he holds at his next purse negotiation.

That's usually how it plays out. We'll see.

I'm surprised you are taking Usyk's lineal/WBC remarks so seriously. He is going to do/say the right thing for Usyk. Which at this moment is sticking by the WBC. But it won't last, it never does.

[billeau2]

I think you're in for a disappointment.

At some point the SBs will screw over Usyk, by trying to pick his pocket. They always do. He will refuse and they will strip him. Then he will sing a different tune about the lineal title he holds at his next purse negotiation.

That's usually how it plays out. We'll see.

I'm surprised you are taking Usyk's lineal/WBC remarks so seriously. He is going to do/say the right thing for Usyk. Which at this moment is sticking by the WBC. But it won't last, it never does.

Your on a roll... and I mean in a great way explaining these things properly and in very simple terms: Probably the teacher mode coming out lol. As I have argued from the start the kafkods are putting the cart before the horse. When the alphabet shows absolute corruption and the promoters try to sell fish that is not fresh, that is precisely when the real title is debated. This is the title that happens when the best fighters fight each other and a champion emerges from that process. We happen to call that the lineal, but it does not matter what it is called, it is what matters because without it what else would be?

The argument is "the lineal only comes out when other titles are debated. Yup... When a true champion like Usyk, Lewis, etc are challenged with an obvious money grab opponent, that is precisely when the lineal comes out... as it should! And as you say so well, perhaps that is when Usyk might well claim the lineal... As he should!

[billeau2]

Lol, you are the casual fan. And lineal will never go away because it can always be traced back. But you go ahead and worship the ABC's and there super champion, regular champion, emeritus champion, super duper champion and whatever else they need to call something to sell it to gullible fans like yourself. Tell me, who is the WBA regular world champion? And are they equal the the WBC super world champion? After all, they both world champions right? How many worlds are you living in again with all these world champions?

It escapes certain people, the need for history and tradition when discussing titles. We call these people "casuals" and while there is nothing wrong with a casual fan, when they try to deny the existance of traditions that maintain the true integrity of the sport that is IMO uncalled for.

So here is another purpose the Lineal holds: When we look and see regional titles, those based on geography, or even olympic titles, there comes a point when levels to the game is relevant. Trainers have been vocal about such distinctions and knowlegable fans in the know have critiqued skills based on the many different regional boxing titles afforded fighters. How do people make a distinction between a fighter who is 30 and 0 and fought regional competition, and a fighter who fought at the highest professional level? The alphabet belts do not sanction their fighters based on skills... Regional titles are afforded based on limited competition... How do we determine the difference in a champion like for example, Andrew Tate, and Cro Cop?

One can look at MMA which does not have a lineal to speak of, and see the mishmash. Most people do not even know that the reason the Gracies "Won" was they were professional fighters, training 24-7, fighting against guys wo were plumbers going to karate classes 3 times a week. And there was virtually no way to make a distinction here! To this very day there is really very little knowledge about the different sanctioned MMA events, other than the fact, the minute you give a man a penny to fight, he is a "professional."

All of these issues are cleared up in boxing because of the lineal. Fight fans understand that the true champion holds a lineage that means, to attain the best status, that individual beat the best competition. That is the power of the lineal. It can be traced back to an original champion and organickly moves forward in time as the process repeats itself. Even if the history is imperfect... I mean we all recognize that the heavyweight champ is not necessarily the absolute "best," but we can at least trace the reason for this assumption (in the older times the fighter who would win was usually the biggest, or it would resolve because a smaller fighter would become the lineal beating the bigger opponent).

Casual fans will never understand this because calling Jake Paul a champion, or not distinguishing a level of participation (the Gracie Brothers professional status) in competition, does not occur to them in the first place. And casual fans do not understand that preclassical boxing was such that being biggr was not the same advantage it is today with big gloves, less rounds, different fighting distance, etc. So i do not blame Kafkod.

[kafkod]

I think you're in for a disappointment.

At some point the SBs will screw over Usyk, by trying to pick his pocket. They always do. He will refuse and they will strip him. Then he will sing a different tune about the lineal title he holds at his next purse negotiation.

That's usually how it plays out. We'll see.

I'm surprised you are taking Usyk's lineal/WBC remarks so seriously. He is going to do/say the right thing for Usyk. Which at this moment is sticking by the WBC. But it won't last, it never does.

Disappointment? Beats me why you would believe that. I'm just stating what I know to be the truth. Only hardcore boxing history nerds even know what a lineal title is supposed to be. 99.9% of boxing fans don't know or care a jot about it.

Usyk wasn't talking about the WBC and the imaginary lineal title in the same conversation. And why would he need to disparage the lineal title to stick by the WBC? That makes no sense. He has spoken many times about the dream he shared with his late father - to win an Olympic gold medal and them become the undisputed world HW champion as a pro. The first time I saw him asked about the lineal title, he literally didn't know what the reporter was talking about and had to have it explained to him by his promoter.

Usyk doesn't need an imaginary lineal title. He became "the man" in the HW division by unifying all 4 title belts. And unless he loses in the ring, the fans will still recognise him as the real champion, even he gets stripped of all those belts.

[kafkod]

It escapes certain people, the need for history and tradition when discussing titles. We call these people "casuals" and while there is nothing wrong with a casual fan, when they try to deny the existance of traditions that maintain the true integrity of the sport that is IMO uncalled for.

So here is another purpose the Lineal holds: When we look and see regional titles, those based on geography, or even olympic titles, there comes a point when levels to the game is relevant. Trainers have been vocal about such distinctions and knowlegable fans in the know have critiqued skills based on the many different regional boxing titles afforded fighters. How do people make a distinction between a fighter who is 30 and 0 and fought regional competition, and a fighter who fought at the highest professional level? The alphabet belts do not sanction their fighters based on skills... Regional titles are afforded based on limited competition... How do we determine the difference in a champion like for example, Andrew Tate, and Cro Cop?

One can look at MMA which does not have a lineal to speak of, and see the mishmash. Most people do not even know that the reason the Gracies "Won" was they were professional fighters, training 24-7, fighting against guys wo were plumbers going to karate classes 3 times a week. And there was virtually no way to make a distinction here! To this very day there is really very little knowledge about the different sanctioned MMA events, other than the fact, the minute you give a man a penny to fight, he is a "professional."

All of these issues are cleared up in boxing because of the lineal. Fight fans understand that the true champion holds a lineage that means, to attain the best status, that individual beat the best competition. That is the power of the lineal. It can be traced back to an original champion and organickly moves forward in time as the process repeats itself. Even if the history is imperfect... I mean we all recognize that the heavyweight champ is not necessarily the absolute "best," but we can at least trace the reason for this assumption (in the older times the fighter who would win was usually the biggest, or it would resolve because a smaller fighter would become the lineal beating the bigger opponent).

Casual fans will never understand this because calling Jake Paul a champion, or not distinguishing a level of participation (the Gracie Brothers professional status) in competition, does not occur to them in the first place. And casual fans do not understand that preclassical boxing was such that being biggr was not the same advantage it is today with big gloves, less rounds, different fighting distance, etc. So i do not blame Kafkod.

I have absolutely no idea what you were talking about there, but I'm glad you realise that, whatever it was, it wasn't my fault.

[Willie Pep 229]

Disappointment? Beats me why you would believe that. I'm just stating what I know to be the truth. Only hardcore boxing history nerds even know what a lineal title is supposed to be. 99.9% of boxing fans don't know or care a jot about it.

Usyk wasn't talking about the WBC and the imaginary lineal title in the same conversation. And why would he need to disparage the lineal title to stick by the WBC? That makes no sense. He has spoken many times about the dream he shared with his late father - to win an Olympic gold medal and them become the undisputed world HW champion as a pro. The first time I saw him asked about the lineal title, he literally didn't know what the reporter was talking about and had to have it explained to him by his promoter.

Usyk doesn't need an imaginary lineal title. He became "the man" in the HW division by unifying all 4 title belts. And unless he loses in the ring, the fans will still recognise him as the real champion, even he gets stripped of all those belts.

Re First Bold

Usyk doesn't NEED to praise the WBC, he wants to build them up because he has a current relationship with them.

Re Second Bold

That's right now! Wait until the WBC screws him over, then he will need the lineal title


Let's wait and see how this plays out. The WBC almost never fails to disappoint when it comes to corruption.

[kafkod]

Re First Bold

Usyk doesn't NEED to praise the WBC, he wants to build them up because he has a current relationship with them.

Re Second Bold

That's right now! Wait until the WBC screws him over, then he will need the lineal title


Let's wait and see how this plays out. The WBC almost never fails to disappoint when it comes to corruption.

That makes no sense. Usyk saying the lineal title means nothing to him doesn't build up the WBC. Quite the opposite, actually. Sulaiman loved it when Tyson Fury was constantly blathering on about being the lineal champ, because he wanted the WBC and the imaginary lineal title to be associated with each other in the minds of gullible fans.