Originally posted by QueensburyRules
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Fury's retirements and the lineal championship
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Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
I said i use their rankings. You're splitting hairs though. Wlad WAS the lineal champion, whether it be Chagaev or Povetkin he won it against. I was always under the impression it was Chagaev. You want to recognise several belts as being world champion. How many worlds do you live in? There can be only one. Fury won it from Wlad, and Usyk from Fury. Or do you believe Dubois is the heavyweight champion, because he holds a shiny belt Usyk in all reality has no need for?
So was Wlad vs Chagaev a lineal title fight ot not? Answer, it depends who you ask. Wlad never had any objective right to call himself the lineal champ, his status was based on subjective opinion. There is no ambiguity like that about Dubois' status. It doesn't matter what I or anybody else believe about him, he is the IBF world champion, that's an objective fact and it's why Usyk and Parker want to fight him.
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What night was it that Larry Merchant quipped 'this is the first night the HW Campionship will be contested twice, on the same night, on the same card'?
I think maybe the Holmes-Witherspoon (WBC) and Dokes-Weaver (WBA) fights on May 1983
The 'fake' lineal title has never had to suffer that duplicity or embarrassment. But the sanctioning bodies are shameless.
How does anyone take a sanctioning body title seriously when they obviously don't take themselves seriously. Two HW Champions in one night, same card.
No respect for the traditions of the game, just a money grab, supported by . . . Well you know what I call those followers.Last edited by Willie Pep 229; 03-29-2025, 05:52 PM.billeau2
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Originally posted by kafkod View Post
I'm not just splitting hairs. By your own words, you were recognising Wlad as lineal champion for nearly 4 years before TBRB starting recognising him too!
So was Wlad vs Chagaev a lineal title fight ot not? Answer, it depends who you ask. Wlad never had any objective right to call himself the lineal champ, his status was based on subjective opinion. There is no ambiguity like that about Dubois' status. It doesn't matter what I or anybody else believe about him, he is the IBF world champion, that's an objective fact and it's why Usyk and Parker want to fight him.
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Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
That's the difference. A lineal claim can be established followed, broken and established again giving us a singular champion. Anyone can create a new ABC org. Should they ALL be recognized as world champions? If so ill ask again, how many worlds are you living in? If you live in this world, there can only be one champion. And I'll take it as the man who beat the man, or the man who beat the next top contender to become the best. That is lineal. Not some money making schemers saying their guy is the best while another money scheming org claims there guy is the best.
or is it usyk?
- Now I am confused.Last edited by max baer; 03-30-2025, 05:34 AM.kafkod likes this.
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Originally posted by max baer View Post
I guess we all gotta put pressure on lennox lewis to come back and fight fury then we will all know!
or is it usyk?
- Now I am confused.
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Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
Only if he fights Usyk. But then again, maybe the WBC will make him champion emeritus so he can come back and immediately fight for their belt.
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Originally posted by Willie Pep 229 View PostWhat night was it that Larry Merchant quipped 'this is the first night the HW Campionship will be contested twice, on the same night, on the same card'?
I think maybe the Holmes-Witherspoon (WBC) and Dokes-Weaver (WBA) fights on May 1983
The 'fake' lineal title has never had to suffer that duplicity or embarrassment. But the sanctioning bodies are shameless.
How does anyone take a sanctioning body title seriously when they obviously don't take themselves seriously. Two HW Champions in one night, same card.
No respect for the traditions of the game, just a money grab, supported by . . . Well you know what I call those followers.
It's easy to overlook that fact though. Lineal title fights are always a contingent by- product of real title fights.
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Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
That's the difference. A lineal claim can be established followed, broken and established again giving us a singular champion. Anyone can create a new ABC org. Should they ALL be recognized as world champions? If so ill ask again, how many worlds are you living in? If you live in this world, there can only be one champion. And I'll take it as the man who beat the man, or the man who beat the next top contender to become the best. That is lineal. Not some money making schemers saying their guy is the best while another money scheming org claims there guy is the best.
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Originally posted by kafkod View Post
Yes it has, on that same card. Holmes vs Witherspoon would have been a lineal title fight.
It's easy to overlook that fact though. Lineal title fights are always a contingent by- product of real title fights.
The belts didn't count, at least to us. One lineal title. Dozens of SB straps.
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