Fury's retirements and the lineal championship

[billeau2]

The US constitution is in no way comparable to the linear (whatever you mean that means to you). The US government have the power to enforce constitutional law upon everybody in the US, whether they agree with it or not. That's what official authority means. It's not difficult to understand.

You missed the analogy. My point was not that the Constitution was operating outside the interests of the state, My point was that sometimes something simple and elegant has more power by virtue of those qualities than more complex directives... The power of the constitution is how direct and simple it is... Just like the lineal. In both cases the intelligence of the directives is partially how easy they are to follow.

[kafkod]

You missed the analogy. My point was not that the Constitution was operating outside the interests of the state, My point was that sometimes something simple and elegant has more power by virtue of those qualities than more complex directives... The power of the constitution is how direct and simple it is... Just like the lineal. In both cases the intelligence of the directives is partially how easy they are to follow.

I didn't miss your analogy. It's just deeply flawed. Simplicity vs complexity is not the issue. The issue is authority vs no authority.

[JAB5239]

I didn't miss your analogy. It's just deeply flawed. Simplicity vs complexity is not the issue. The issue is authority vs no authority.

What authority though? I'm not following. Anyone can make and or declare a world champion. Just because they're that authority (and collecting a fee) does not make them the end all. For many fans like myself, I'd rather follow a lineage of fighters that started with a one belt per division champion. And when the lineage is broken, the two best fighters (usually a consensus of the fans) start a new lineage therefore keeping the line as intact as it possibly can be. ABC orgs be damned....I don't need them to tell me who is the best, or the champion. As long as they're accepting money to fight for the world championship they can be corrupted, and have been many times. For me personally, I choose the lesser of two evils and logic. This of cpuse is only my opinion. I'm open to here better options, I just don't think an organization that gets paid to rank a fighter is it. Helpful maybe, but far more easily manipulated. Jmo.

[kafkod]

What authority though? I'm not following. Anyone can make and or declare a world champion. Just because they're that authority (and collecting a fee) does not make them the end all. For many fans like myself, I'd rather follow a lineage of fighters that started with a one belt per division champion. And when the lineage is broken, the two best fighters (usually a consensus of the fans) start a new lineage therefore keeping the line as intact as it possibly can be. ABC orgs be damned....I don't need them to tell me who is the best, or the champion. As long as they're accepting money to fight for the world championship they can be corrupted, and have been many times. For me personally, I choose the lesser of two evils and logic. This of cpuse is only my opinion. I'm open to here better options, I just don't think an organization that gets paid to rank a fighter is it. Helpful maybe, but far more easily manipulated. Jmo.

What authority? Think about this, and hopefully, you'll get it:

Yes, anybody can make or declare a world champion. You could do it if you wanted to. But if you called your champion, "The WBC heavyweight champion of the world" and started trying to sell tickets to see him fight whoever in a "WBC world heavyweight title fight" you would soon be hit with a "cease and desist letter" from the real WBC. And if you ignored it, you would end up in court. That's because the WBC title has real, legal existence, and only the WBC have the legal right and authority to award or strip WBC titles.

On the other hand, Tyson Fury could announce another comeback, and Frank Warren could sell his comeback fight as a lineal title defence, on the grounds that Fury didn't really lose to Usyk and is therefor still the lineal champion. They would get laughed at, but they wouldn't get sued. Nobody has the authority to sue anybody else for calling themselves the lineal champion, because the lineal title has no legal existence.

When Usyk was asked how much being the lineal champion meant to him, he laughed the question off and said the lineal title was nothing but Tyson Fury's bullshit. I still find it hard to believe how many fans fell for the bullshit put out by Fury, Queensberry, Top Rank, PBC,and the WBC, selling Fury vs Pianeta, Seferi, Schwarz and Wallin as lineal title defences, and Fury vs Wilder as a WBC and lineal title unification fight.

[billeau2]

I didn't miss your analogy. It's just deeply flawed. Simplicity vs complexity is not the issue. The issue is authority vs no authority.

And that is exactly where you are wrong... At least you understand the issue...

[billeau2]

What authority though? I'm not following. Anyone can make and or declare a world champion. Just because they're that authority (and collecting a fee) does not make them the end all. For many fans like myself, I'd rather follow a lineage of fighters that started with a one belt per division champion. And when the lineage is broken, the two best fighters (usually a consensus of the fans) start a new lineage therefore keeping the line as intact as it possibly can be. ABC orgs be damned....I don't need them to tell me who is the best, or the champion. As long as they're accepting money to fight for the world championship they can be corrupted, and have been many times. For me personally, I choose the lesser of two evils and logic. This of cpuse is only my opinion. I'm open to here better options, I just don't think an organization that gets paid to rank a fighter is it. Helpful maybe, but far more easily manipulated. Jmo.

To Kafkod and many other souls the only real authority is that given by the political powers, the state... To him fans have no authority, fighters have no authority, nobody has authority except if the state says it does... Kind of silly but many people believe this. So for example, your mother and father? The state tells them to kill their kids? See a problem here? Mothers and fathers have different power and would not do such a thing, they would oppose such a thing using the power of kinship, community and family. But alas, to Kafkod ad his ilk? The state is the only real authority and if they want kids killed.... well by kiddies.

And if this analogy sounds extreme? Look at China... A state that tells people when they can have kids, what kids are valuable and which should die (infanticide), etc.

[billeau2]

What authority? Think about this, and hopefully, you'll get it:

Yes, anybody can make or declare a world champion. You could do it if you wanted to. But if you called your champion, "The WBC heavyweight champion of the world" and started trying to sell tickets to see him fight whoever in a "WBC world heavyweight title fight" you would soon be hit with a "cease and desist letter" from the real WBC. And if you ignored it, you would end up in court. That's because the WBC title has real, legal existence, and only the WBC have the legal right and authority to award or strip WBC titles.

On the other hand, Tyson Fury could announce another comeback, and Frank Warren could sell his comeback fight as a lineal title defence, on the grounds that Fury didn't really lose to Usyk and is therefor still the lineal champion. They would get laughed at, but they wouldn't get sued. Nobody has the authority to sue anybody else for calling themselves the lineal champion, because the lineal title has no legal existence.

When Usyk was asked how much being the lineal champion meant to him, he laughed the question off and said the lineal title was nothing but Tyson Fury's bullshit. I still find it hard to believe how many fans fell for the bullshit put out by Fury, Queensberry, Top Rank, PBC,and the WBC, selling Fury vs Pianeta, Seferi, Schwarz and Wallin as lineal title defences, and Fury vs Wilder as a WBC and lineal title unification fight.

So to you fans are "anybody?" And legal issues define the entire scope of ethical actions? So I catch a serial predator doing a child and I kill him, the legal authority of the state is the only authority in force? No... Anybody with sense would know why the predator was killed, You have it a s s bacwards... Anybody with interests can be sanctioned by the authorites to act... with no real interest or knowledge of a champion, etc other than ulterior motives.

You conveniently avoid the basis for this legal authority because it does not exist beyond ulterior motives... It is the difference between a cop who gives you aticket to collect revenue and in the future a cop who geniunely wants for your safety and asks you nicely to slow down for the sake of your family... and you just do not get it because like so many others, you are brainwashed into believing anything sanctioned by the state is "real," and no other power, or authority exist...

[JAB5239]

What authority? Think about this, and hopefully, you'll get it:

Yes, anybody can make or declare a world champion. You could do it if you wanted to. But if you called your champion, "The WBC heavyweight champion of the world" and started trying to sell tickets to see him fight whoever in a "WBC world heavyweight title fight" you would soon be hit with a "cease and desist letter" from the real WBC. And if you ignored it, you would end up in court. That's because the WBC title has real, legal existence, and only the WBC have the legal right and authority to award or strip WBC titles.

On the other hand, Tyson Fury could announce another comeback, and Frank Warren could sell his comeback fight as a lineal title defence, on the grounds that Fury didn't really lose to Usyk and is therefor still the lineal champion. They would get laughed at, but they wouldn't get sued. Nobody has the authority to sue anybody else for calling themselves the lineal champion, because the lineal title has no legal existence.

When Usyk was asked how much being the lineal champion meant to him, he laughed the question off and said the lineal title was nothing but Tyson Fury's bullshit. I still find it hard to believe how many fans fell for the bullshit put out by Fury, Queensberry, Top Rank, PBC,and the WBC, selling Fury vs Pianeta, Seferi, Schwarz and Wallin as lineal title defences, and Fury vs Wilder as a WBC and lineal title unification fight.

Let's look at it another way. When the titles are fragmented, who is the Champion? Is it the WBC, WBO, IBF, WBA, IBA IBC, IBO? Anyone can claim a champion and charge them for that honor. Who decides who the champion is when this scenario plays out. This is why, in my opinion, the lineal title will always reign supreme.

[billeau2]

Let's look at it another way. When the titles are fragmented, who is the Champion? Is it the WBC, WBO, IBF, WBA, IBA IBC, IBO? Anyone can claim a champion and charge them for that honor. Who decides who the champion is when this scenario plays out. This is why, in my opinion, the lineal title will always reign supreme.

The beautiful thing here is that lucky for us the fans do speak and decide who the best is... Otherwise as you point out, and what they want would be, lots and lots of fans who do not know better all buying into how one alphabet is better than another... and then when each alphabet champ is 50 years old... You can have the championships! After having each alphabet champ fight journey men who are professional opponents...

What the alphabets want is what you would see in early boxing and in places like Brazil with robust combatives... "matches for exhibition and Working...." Both terms for a performance... BUT people were, back then, made aware! So when a Brazilian kid went to the carnival to watch a "Catch Can" wrestling match in Brazil, he knew it was an exhibition, wrestlers putting in "work." James Figg got his start doing this with fencing... The difference is the alphabets want people to experience this totally unaware of the difference. That is criminal.

And... When two fighters went at it "Vale Tudo" for Brazil, it was also known. When Gracie fought Kimura everyone knew it was a real match... When Jake Paul fights some mismatch do fans understand that Paul would not do so well facing a real professional fighter competing as a boxer? To kafkod if Paul was given an alphabet title, so be it! It is real! lol... And g*****s like you and I saying "But Paul is not a professional boxer" would be told to leave the room I suppose lol.

[billeau2]

So all: You and your brother are going to get married. Your brother is a Catholic and you are more secular minded. One gal wants a secular wedding the other wants a Catholic wedding...

One marriage is consumated by a public official, the other by a Priest... Who has the more "powerful" marriage? Is it the brother sanctioned by the State? Or by the Priest? Is the marriage by the Priest only as strong as it is recognized by the state? Rhetorical questions but related to the same issue.

New jersey wanted to make Martial Artists register for a license... Would this registration make them better? Was new Jersey doing this (the bill was defeated thank God) because it cared about the safety of people? Or to collect revenue? What did their license do to make martial artists better, less sketchy?

If you think about these questions you will see the nature of the lineal versus the idea that anything sanctioned by the state authorites is "more good" as they say i parts of Brooklyn! lol.