Does anyone still think the old time heavyweights were too small to be competitive in the modern era?

[QueensburyRules]

Fury was carrying a good 30lbs/40lbs of blubber. His lifestyle ,and the fact that he is past his best proved his undoing

Usyk is not a small man he is as big as Ali ,heavier actually ,as big as Holmes,Liston,Foreman,and bigger than everyone who preceded them with the exception of those two

- - Usyk at age 37 is not only naturally bigger and stronger than Ali or Lar, he's a better athlete, smarter, and not stinking up the ring as they did in their tubby elder years.

[them_apples]

He didn't have the same medicine, so he was 205 and that's the only version you can use in these fantasy matchups. Even if you beg santa for a bigger Joe Louis, he didn't exist.

You also don't really understand how this works anyway, Bronson66 is already explaining to you how fighters grow into their size at a young age, and you don't understand that sudden mass gain affects your attributes. With your Louis fantasy, if he bulks up he will lose his entire foundation: footwork. Joe is already not the fastest mover so a bunch of bullk is gonna slow him down and he can no longer set his traps and offense. And he already got knocked down too many times as it is, with all that bulk to slow him down he's gonna be slower on his defence to block or move out of the way from punches. Boxing is not a numbers game, some guys don't get better by adding them size, and you're pretending Louis is the exact same fighter after balooning him up

but we donā€™t know if the medicine replaces hard work, we donā€™t know if the weight helps. Louis dismantled many huge fighters with relative ease

[them_apples]

If Marciano was working himself to exhaustion and running15 miles daily he would not be in any state to fight!
This is Marciano's training schedule.


"Each day for a month, Marciano has got up at 7 a.m. He then has a cup of tea (sugar and lemon) and usually runs between three and five miles.

At 8:30, it is a breakfast of fruit, cereal, two soft-boiled eggs, lamb chops, toast, and more tea.

He walks and naps until noon, when he has some tea.

Then he naps until his big workout at 3 p.m. After 4:30 he naps until dinner time at 5:30; after which he walks, plays ping pong, reads, or listens to the radio. At 8:30 he may have an apple or pear, and goes to bed.
Ninety minutes of training."

This is NOT during camp. This is all year around. During the peak of camp he cranked it up

find another fighter who trains all year around

[them_apples]

Louis said Marciano was strong, he never said he was strong as a bull .That's just another of your little "additions",

Correct Ali said he was strong as a bull. Louis said something like ā€œbut he was strong though, I believe heā€™s the greatest of championsā€

[them_apples]

Why?

The whole damn thing is a fantasy. Why would one methodology be more valid than the next?

You (and others) say it is silly to adjust size to contemporary nutrition.

OK! So what about gloves? Does Jack Johnson have to fight with five ounce gloves with little to no wrapping?

Rounds: Does Fury have to go 45 rounds to win the title?

A 12 round fight for a world title would probably make Jack Johnson snicker at your rules.

No standing eight count; no kidney belts (weren't allowed until 1931); low blow foul rules have changed; No mouth guards allowed until 1929.

How would Wald feel about going 45 rounds, with no kidney belt, no mouth guard, no manadtory eight count, no neutral corner requirement, no rest period after low blows (the fighter is DQed, or the downed fighter has to beat the count or is counted out.)

You're making a laundry list of adjustments, each time to fantasize, but when Apple wants to make an adjustment for nutrition you call him "childish"? Seems an arbitrary decision to me.

You're not "taking them for what they were."

Hell even the boots have innovated several times over the decades and are much superior today. Does Jack Johnson have to wear circa 1900 footwear? You won't let him gain from today's superior diet, so I guess he needs to wear the old boots as well. You say you only take them as they were.

You all are making this up as you go, and that's fine, enjoy, but don't think there is a right way and a wrong way to fantasize.

Excellent points.

[ShoulderRoll]

From Tim Witherspoon’s YouTube channel.


Usyk Uses Jack Dempsey’s Power Line Punch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4uCFPCGyv8

[them_apples]

To answer your question why (is it wrong to tale older fighters, bur envision them with modern training), is because it contradicts the general premise of the question.

Most modern heavyweights are bigger for two reasons: 1 they were raised in a post ww2 society that allows for healthier lifestyles and a taller populace. And 2, and this is the big one, they believe in modern training techniques, which they feel allowsthem to carry extra weight, without sacrificing much in way of speed, stamina, etc.

To re-imagine the question where older fighters are allowed to use modern techniques, in order to gain healthy weight for a fight, is essentially admiting that more weight (brought on by modern training) does make modern heavyweights better.

Healthier lifestyles and a taller populace?

letā€™s get the numbers here.

if we have a taller healthier populace why was our champion a knock kneed milkbag whoā€™s 60-70 lbs overweight? Why is the best guy to represent us making an absolute mockery of conditioning and strength?

why are cruiserweights beating our biggest and strongest fighters. Even if heā€™s bulked up why is a 223 lbs man getting the job done over 240+ lb behemoths.

why does this Mirror every single era? A smaller heavy with more talent taking down big sluggish oafs that simply are not built for a striking sport?

[IronDanHamza]

This is NOT during camp. This is all year around. During the peak of camp he cranked it up

find another fighter who trains all year around

#1 How do you know that?

#2 Even if it were true that is not why he weighs 185 lbs

#3 Why are you avoiding the fact you admitted to using TRT?

How times did you pin your Test a week?


Are you still going to try and argue that Marciano wasn’t morbidly obese at 255 lbs in retirement?

[DeeMoney]

Healthier lifestyles and a taller populace?

letās get the numbers here.

if we have a taller healthier populace why was our champion a knock kneed milkbag whoās 60-70 lbs overweight? Why is the best guy to represent us making an absolute mockery of conditioning and strength?

why are cruiserweights beating our biggest and strongest fighters. Even if heās bulked up why is a 223 lbs man getting the job done over 240+ lb behemoths.

why does this Mirror every single era? A smaller heavy with more talent taking down big sluggish oafs that simply are not built for a striking sport?

Your post has nothing to do with my statement. You argue that bigger heavyweights are losing to smaller ones (traditional cruiserweigts). My point was that modern athletes, and modern population in general, those borwn post WWII, tend to be taller and healthier than those born earlier in the century. As they are not being raiser during a global depression, during the rationing of a world war, and with better health standards as a whole (even with an increase in processed foods its a lot healthier to be raised now than in the 1930s. And that contributes to people as a whole being bigger.
Your post quoting me seemed to miss that as being the premise

[Biledriver]

Why?

The whole damn thing is a fantasy. Why would one methodology be more valid than the next?

You (and others) say it is silly to adjust size to contemporary nutrition.

OK! So what about gloves? Does Jack Johnson have to fight with five ounce gloves with little to no wrapping?

Rounds: Does Fury have to go 45 rounds to win the title?

A 12 round fight for a world title would probably make Jack Johnson snicker at your rules.

No standing eight count; no kidney belts (weren't allowed until 1931); low blow foul rules have changed; No mouth guards allowed until 1929.

How would Wald feel about going 45 rounds, with no kidney belt, no mouth guard, no manadtory eight count, no neutral corner requirement, no rest period after low blows (the fighter is DQed, or the downed fighter has to beat the count or is counted out.)

You're making a laundry list of adjustments, each time to fantasize, but when Apple wants to make an adjustment for nutrition you call him "childish"? Seems an arbitrary decision to me.

You're not "taking them for what they were."

Hell even the boots have innovated several times over the decades and are much superior today. Does Jack Johnson have to wear circa 1900 footwear? You won't let him gain from today's superior diet, so I guess he needs to wear the old boots as well. You say you only take them as they were.

You all are making this up as you go, and that's fine, enjoy, but don't think there is a right way and a wrong way to fantasize.

^^^^^ This. This right here. It's all speculation, and the methodology used, and presuppositions brought to the table, depend on what aim is of the people doing the speculating. If someone isn't going to account for differences in eras when comparing fighters, then he's wasting everybody's time: It's a pointless endeavor because what inevitably ends up being compared are the eras themselves and not the fighters in question. Honestly, I have no time for some peoples' "Let's go back in time with an UZI" fantasies. I gave up having these arguments years ago as it was just a never-ending circle-jerk making the same arguments over and over again, usually with the same fuc king people from the month prior. After a few years it just gets old.