-
-
Yes that is true. Not sure how it applies here but I certainly would agree.
If we do deal with this issue, that athletes must make a choice and ultimately bare responsibility for what they consume, this also is not necessarily an easy choice to make. I do not know how the health system in your country works, but will assume a lot of the medicines given are similar. When we get a little older, often a drug with steroids is given to help healing. A professional athlete, whom is particularly hard on his/her body might well get a nagging injury that would benefit from a steroidal preparation.That athlete, may not have a fight scheduled, yet could be called and asked to fight... Do they take the medicine? Or do they just let the injury get worse, because they might get called to fight?
My point is, because of rules, often an athlete is not even allowed to get basic medical treatment for chronic injuries. The choice to "take a steroid" under the conditions may be harder than simple Black and White Ethics. Just like with pain, where a drug that helps the pain also makes us feel good, drugs that heal chronic tissue injuries often heal us by making the area stronger... So in a sense, curing oneself of an injury also gives one "advantages." See why this is a tricky issue?Comment
-
What? Why would you not include Pascal twice? They are two KO wins over a ranked fighter.
You are using two fights with Alvarez and two fights with Ward. Anyone's KO ratio that has fought mutliple fights is going to include mutliple fights vs the same fighter. What logical reason would there be to not include those mutliple fights when talking KO ratio?
I really don't know how this can be said clearer at this point.
Kovalev had 7 fights vs ranked fighters going into the Ward fight and had 5 KO's vs them and he knocked down every one of them. That is a KO artist.
Keith Thurman on the other hand going into the Pacquaio fight had 4 fights vs ranked fighters and 0 KO's and knocked down one of them. That is not a KO artist.
It's extremely simple. All the tap dancing you're attempting to do doesn't change any of it.Last edited by IronDanHamza; 11-22-2024, 01:38 PM.Comment
-
Lol because it's double-counting and I thought we were talking about KO ratios against ranked individuals only. Anyhow, even if you decided to include Pascal twice his KO ratio is only 71% and NOT 90%+ like you proclaimed. Also, it's not a like-for-like comparison because every fighter Keith faced was undefeated and a world champion whereas Mohammedi never won a world title and was already stopped TWICE before facing Kovalev. Campillo & Cleverly were hardly the same calibre of opposition as Porter & Garcia (who went the distance with MANY top Welterweights) either lmao
Kovalev was definitely a BIGGER puncher than Thurman (obviously - he has a higher overall KO ratio) but the level of ranked opponents he knocked out were definitely INFERIOR to Thurman's resume.Last edited by HisExcellency; 11-22-2024, 02:40 PM.Comment
-
How is it double counting? It is a KO win vs ranked opponent. Why would you not count it?
If that's how you're doing it then you may as well just throw KO% out the window all together if you are going to discount them just because they've already fought them. You're doing the opposite by counting Kovalev's multiple loss's to bring it down. It's not consistent.
So then what you're saying here is than Andre Berto is a KO artist I take it? As is Victor Ortiz and Brandon Rios?
Like Thurman, they all have a 75% KO ratio so, is that how you see it?
You're again totally fixated by the KO % number alone and not using any context, which I explained like 10 pages ago or something. Yet it's still not com*****g despite breaking it down to the point a child could understand.
Comment
-
Lol actually it's YOU who's totally fixed by KO % without using any context...let me explain.
How is it double counting? It is a KO win vs ranked opponent. Why would you not count it?
If that's how you're doing it then you may as well just throw KO% out the window all together if you are going to discount them just because they've already fought them. You're doing the opposite by counting Kovalev's multiple loss's to bring it down. It's not consistent.
So then what you're saying here is than Andre Berto is a KO artist I take it? As is Victor Ortiz and Brandon Rios?
Like Thurman, they all have a 75% KO ratio so, is that how you see it?
You're again totally fixated by the KO % number alone and not using any context, which I explained like 10 pages ago or something. Yet it's still not com*****g despite breaking it down to the point a child could understand.
Firstly, I stand corrected...previously I said that Kovalev's KO ratio against ranked opposition was 71% (if you include Pascal twice) but it's actually only 62% and NOT 90% like you proclaimed. Also, Mohammedi never won a world title and had already been knocked out twice before whereas both Cleverly & Campillo were average fighter's at best. Therefore, although he's definitely a harder puncher than Thurman, he's NOT the savage killer you proclaim him to be given his 62% KO ratio and POOR quality of ranked opposition.
As for Thurman, he may not have stopped any of his ranked opponents but it would be foolish to ignore the fact that all 4 of them were only stopped ONCE in their career (with 3 of them in their FINAL fight). Therefore, they were exceptionally durable guys plus many top Welterweights like Spence, Brook, Mayweather, Ugas, Matthysse etc failed to get Garcia, Guerrero & Porter out of there too. However, I'm sure if he'd faced the likes of Cleverly, Mohammedi (finished with 11 losses lol) & Campillo (finished with 8 losses lol) he'd have no problem either
Last edited by HisExcellency; 11-22-2024, 03:51 PM.Comment
-
You cannot be serious
Lol actually it's YOU who's totally fixed by KO % without using any context...let me explain.
Firstly, I stand corrected...previously I said that Kovalev's KO ratio against ranked opposition was 71% (if you include Pascal twice) but it's actually only 62% and NOT 90% like you proclaimed. Also, Mohammedi never won a world title and had already been knocked out twice before whereas both Cleverly & Campillo were average fighter's at best. Therefore, although he's definitely a harder puncher than Thurman, he's NOT the savage killer you proclaim him to be given his 62% KO ratio and POOR quality of ranked opposition.
As for Thurman, he may not have stopped any of his ranked opponents but it would be foolish to ignore the fact that all 4 of them were only stopped ONCE in their career (with 3 of them in their FINAL fight). Therefore, they were exceptionally durable guys plus many top Welterweights like Spence, Brook, Mayweather, Ugas, Matthysse etc failed to get Garcia, Guerrero & Porter out of there too. However, I'm sure if he'd faced the likes of Cleverly, Mohammedi (finished with 11 losses lol) & Campillo (finished with 8 losses lol) he'd have no problem either
ALL I am doing is using context. You are using none, and just going off the number I.E 76% KO ratio = KO Artist when it DOESN'T.
Ok then, I will ask you a very simple question here.
When Philip Ndou fought Floyd Mayweather in 2003, he had 30 KO's in 32 fights, with a KO% of 93%.
His nickname was "The Time Bomb" and was known by the media as such.
Is Philip Ndou a KO aritst and big puncher in your eyes?Comment
-
Lol I'm using NO context? What about the fact that I just mentioned that 3 of Keith's ranked opponents were only stopped once in their final fight and went the distance with a host of other TOP Welterweights?
You cannot be serious ALL I am doing is using context. You are using none, and just going off the number I.E 76% KO ratio = KO Artist when it DOESN'T.
Ok then, I will ask you a very simple question here.
When Philip Ndou fought Floyd Mayweather in 2003, he had 30 KO's in 32 fights, with a KO% of 93%.
His nickname was "The Time Bomb" and was known by the media as such.
Is Philip Ndou a KO aritst and big puncher in your eyes?
I've got NO problem admitting when I'm wrong e.g. Hopkins-Cloud and incorrectly including Collazo & Lopez as ranked opponents (I was using an out of date list). However, I'm definitely NOT wrong about Thurman being a hard puncher during his prime. At the end of the day, if you seriously believe that a 2 weight WORLD champion (unlike Ndou) who defended his belt several times and finished with a career KO ratio of 73% and dropped 3 of the remaining 7 guys he didn't knockout (including 1 ranked opponent - the other 3 were only stopped ONCE in their final fight) WASN'T a puncher then you need serious help.
End of discussion!Comment
Tweet
Comment