Pacquiao - Measured against all time.

[IronDanHamza]

Lol just like Thurman having a 76% KO ratio at the time of facing Pacquiao doesn't make him a 'puncher'!

Ok so is Andre Berto a KO artist?

Is Victor Ortiz a KO artist?

Is Brandon Rio’s a KO artist?

You understand your argument is a fallacy argument, right?

[IronDanHamza]

So now, according to Iron Dan, an all time great, can not be considered to be one of the greatest of all time.

You can't make this s*** up

Well no, not usually.

Usually when talking about “one of the greatest fighters that ever lived” you are talking about a Top 5-10 ATG.

If being an ATG is your criteria for that kind of description then there are over 100 people you can say that about which kind of makes the whole thing pointless.

But I wouldn’t expect someone with the IQ of a loaf of bread to understand that.

[IronDanHamza]

Not much. It was about JMM. Hence why I wrote what I did. Plenty of su****ion around both but also on Floyd and DLH.

About his fight with Pacquaio though?

So don’t understand why one would get accused and not the other when the amount of evidence for both using PED’s is as good as identical.

[HisExcellency]

Nice list of excuses again but all we’ve confirmed here is his KO ratio vs ranked opponents before, and after Pacquaio is 0%.

These are facts and that means that they are not a ko artist. Pick any actual KO artist in the history of this sport and all of them will have high KO% against ranked opponents.

You’re again using the media narrative as some kind of reasoning when that is a none argument. The media saying something doesn’t make it in any way true like the example I just gave you with Adrien Broner and countless other examples that could be listed.

Here are the facts of the matter, Thurman had fought 4 ranked fighters prior to Pacquaio and stopped none of them and dropped one of them.

That’s not a KO artist.

Lol sorry but you can't overlook the FACT that Thurman faced 4 incredibly durable guys who had all only been stopped ONCE in their ENTIRE careers (with Zaveck, Garcia & Porter only losing in their FINAL fight and Guerrero just a few fights before retirement). That would be foolish. Also, let's not forget that Guerrero, Garcia & Porter went the distance with plenty of other top Welterweights too (in addition to Keith) including Mayweather, Ugas, Berto, Spence, Brook, Alexander, Broner etc.

Separately, you claim that Kovalev was a puncher (he was) but after scrolling through his resume, he was stopped by Canelo (ranked fighter), stopped by E. Alvarez (ranked fighter) and then beat him by decision only, lost to Ward (ranked fighter) TWICE including by stoppage, beat Chilemba (ranked fighter) but only by decision, beat Hopkins (ranked fighter) but only by decision too. In fact, the ONLY ranked fighter's he managed to take out were Pascal, Cleverly, Mohammedi & Campillo lmao! Therefore, his KO ratio against ranked opposition is a paltry 57% at best! Where is this '90% KO ratio against ranked fighter's' that you previously claimed? Your argument is WEAK and you've just been exposed!

Finally, I'm NOT saying we should just blindly believe whatever the media says but they usually base their opinions on verifiable data e.g. wins, losses, KO ratios etc. which validates their opinion.

[IronDanHamza]

Lol sorry but you can't overlook the FACT that Thurman faced 4 incredibly durable guys who had all only been stopped ONCE in their ENTIRE careers (with Zaveck, Garcia & Porter only losing in their FINAL fight and Guerrero just a few fights before retirement). That would be foolish. Also, let's not forget that Guerrero, Garcia & Porter went the distance with plenty of other top Welterweights too (in addition to Keith) including Mayweather, Ugas, Berto, Spence, Brook, Alexander, Broner etc.

Separately, you claim that Kovalev was a puncher (he was) but after scrolling through his resume, he was stopped by Canelo (ranked fighter), stopped by E. Alvarez (ranked fighter) and then beat him by decision only, lost to Ward (ranked fighter) TWICE including by stoppage, beat Chilemba (ranked fighter) but only by decision, beat Hopkins (ranked fighter) but only by decision too. In fact, the ONLY ranked fighter's he managed to take out were Pascal, Cleverly, Mohammedi & Campillo lmao! Therefore, his KO ratio against ranked opposition is a paltry 57% at best! Where is this '90% KO ratio against ranked fighter's' that you previously claimed? Your argument is WEAK and you've just been exposed!

Finally, I'm NOT saying we should just blindly believe whatever the media says but they usually base their opinions on verifiable data e.g. wins, losses, KO ratios etc. which validates their opinion.

Eh, no Kovalev has 7 KO wins over ranked fighters, that’s 7 more than Keith Thurman.

And when he fought Andre Ward for example, he had 6 KO wins in 8 fights vs ranked fighters and scored knockdowns against 100% of them (8/8)

THAT is a KO artist. Not Keith Thurman who has a 0% KO ratio vs ranked fighters and only knocked down one of them.

Every point you attempt to make makes your argument weaker

You can tap dance around the facts of the matter all you want it won’t change the fact that Keith Thurman has a 0% KO ratio against ranked fighters.

It’s very simple.

[HisExcellency]

Eh, no Kovalev has 7 KO wins over ranked fighters, that’s 7 more than Keith Thurman.

And when he fought Andre Ward for example, he had 6 KO wins in 8 fights vs ranked fighters and scored knockdowns against 100% of them (8/8)

THAT is a KO artist. Not Keith Thurman who has a 0% KO ratio vs ranked fighters and only knocked down one of them.

Every point you attempt to make makes your argument weaker

You can tap dance around the facts of the matter all you want it won’t change the fact that Keith Thurman has a 0% KO ratio against ranked fighters.

It’s very simple.

Who were the 7 KO wins against because I only managed to find 4 guys (Pascal, Cleverly, Mohammedi & Campillo)?

[IronDanHamza]

Who were the 7 KO wins against because I only managed to find 4 guys (Pascal, Cleverly, Mohammedi & Campillo)?

Pascal x2, Cleverly, Mohammedi, Campillo, Yarde so 6 total not 7.

Prior to Ward he was 5 KO’s out of 7 ranked fights not 6 out of 8 so same difference and still 100% KD ratio.

[HisExcellency]

Pascal x2, Cleverly, Mohammedi, Campillo, Yarde so 6 total not 7.

Prior to Ward he was 5 KO’s out of 7 ranked fights not 6 out of 8 so same difference and still 100% KD ratio.

Lmao you can't include Pascal TWICE (especially when Kovalev faced him twice in just 10 months!) plus Yarde WASN'T a ranked fighter when they shared the ring (check out the link below). Therefore, if we're talking about individuals, Kovalev only stopped Pascal, Cleverly, Mohammed & Campillo whilst beating Hopkins, E. Alvarez & Chilemba all by decision. Therefore, his KO ratio against ranked individuals was a paltry 57% like I said all along!

Also, let's not forget that Thurman beat 4 WORLD CHAMPIONS in Zaveck, Guerrero, Porter & Garcia whereas Mohammedi never won a world title and was stopped twice BEFORE facing Krusher.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Th...yweight--2010s

[BattlingNelson]

Nelson, The point here has to do with consistency. When we think a guy is juicing, we have to realize even the definition of a drug that enhances is relatively fluid. So some supplements are not technically the class of drugs disallowed, and some drugs used for healing actually have steroids, it is a real rabbit hole.

If we are consistent and understand this fluidity one can see Marquez is no different than many fighters who might have used an illegal drug.

Well it's the athlete who has the sole responsebility of what is in his body so it doesn't matter how a PED got in there.

[djtmal]

Well no, not usually.

Usually when talking about “one of the greatest fighters that ever lived” you are talking about a Top .

gtfoh that has so many variables that its not worth proving