Pacquiao - Measured against all time.

[IronDanHamza]

Lol I'm using NO context? What about the fact that I just mentioned that 3 of Keith's ranked opponents were only stopped once in their final fight and went the distance with a host of other TOP Welterweights?

I've got NO problem admitting when I'm wrong e.g. Hopkins-Cloud and incorrectly including Collazo & Lopez as ranked opponents (I was using an out of date list). However, I'm definitely NOT wrong about Thurman being a hard puncher during his prime. At the end of the day, if you seriously believe that a 2 weight WORLD champion (unlike Ndou) who defended his belt several times and finished with a career KO ratio of 73% and dropped 3 of the remaining 7 guys he didn't knockout (including 1 ranked opponent - the other 3 were only stopped ONCE in their final fight) WASN'T a puncher then you need serious help.

End of discussion!

Is there a reason you are overtly avoiding the question?

When Philip Ndou fought Floyd Mayweather in 2003, he had 30 KO's in 32 fights, with a KO% of 93%.

His nickname was "The Time Bomb" and was known by the media as such.

Is Philip Ndou a KO aritst and big puncher in your eyes?

Yes or no will suffice.


And yes, believe it not someone with a 0% KO Ratio vs ranked opponents and 1 knockdown is not a KO artist. Shocking, I know.

How can you not see that just rinse and repeating "76% KO ratio=KO artist" is not void of context? It is by definition exactly that.

[HisExcellency]

Is there a reason you are overtly avoiding the question?

When Philip Ndou fought Floyd Mayweather in 2003, he had 30 KO's in 32 fights, with a KO% of 93%.

His nickname was "The Time Bomb" and was known by the media as such.

Is Philip Ndou a KO aritst and big puncher in your eyes?

Yes or no will suffice.


And yes, believe it not someone with a 0% KO Ratio vs ranked opponents and 1 knockdown is not a KO artist. Shocking, I know.

How can you not see that just rinse and repeating "76% KO ratio=KO artist" is not void of context? It is by definition exactly that.

I don't want to talk about other fighter's because we're having enough problems discussing Thurman already!

Anyway, it's only YOU that's totally fixated with KO ratios (ranked fighter's specifically) without looking at the BIGGER picture. Thurman was a 2x WORLD champion who defended his belts several times and finished his career with only 1 loss against ATG Pacquiao. More importantly, he either dropped or stopped 25 out of 30 opponents he defeated (83%) and 3 of the 5 guys he failed to get out of there were only stopped ONCE in the final fight of their careers. They also went the distance with MANY elite Welterweights too so were exceptionally tough. That just leaves Barrios who Thurman faced following a 3 year lay-off in his mid-30s when his power was diminishing.

Conclusion: Keith IS a puncher!

PS: Let's just agree to disagree on this one plus this thread is about Manny so probably best to end this discussion here.

[IronDanHamza]

I don't want to talk about other fighter's because we're having enough problems discussing Thurman already!

Anyway, it's only YOU that's totally fixated with KO ratios (ranked fighter's specifically) without looking at the BIGGER picture. Thurman was a 2x WORLD champion who defended his belts several times and finished his career with only 1 loss against ATG Pacquiao. More importantly, he either dropped or stopped 25 out of 30 opponents he defeated (83%) and 3 of the 5 guys he failed to get out of there were only stopped ONCE in the final fight of their careers. They also went the distance with MANY elite Welterweights too so were exceptionally tough. That just leaves Barrios who Thurman faced following a 3 year lay-off in his mid-30s when his power was diminishing.

Conclusion: Keith IS a puncher!

PS: Let's just agree to disagree on this one plus this thread is about Manny so probably best to end this discussion here.

Why? You bring up other fighters when it suits you.

It's a like for like comparison.

When Philip Ndou fought Floyd Mayweather in 2003, he had 30 KO's in 32 fights, with a KO% of 93%.

His nickname was "The Time Bomb" and was known by the media as such.

Is Philip Ndou a KO aritst and big puncher in your eyes?

Yes or no will suffice.

[HisExcellency]

Why? You bring up other fighters when it suits you.

It's a like for like comparison.

When Philip Ndou fought Floyd Mayweather in 2003, he had 30 KO's in 32 fights, with a KO% of 93%.

His nickname was "The Time Bomb" and was known by the media as such.

Is Philip Ndou a KO aritst and big puncher in your eyes?

Yes or no will suffice.

On paper (and without knowing ANYTHING about him) yes...fighting Mayweather for a WORLD title means he'd beaten enough decent fighter's and having a 93% KO ratio obviously means he could crack. However, you'll probably say 'no' because he knocked out no ranked fighter's or faced none at all. Also, he fought Mayweather at Lightweight but started his career 2 weight divisions lower so he could've been a puncher in the lower weight classes but not at Lightweight.

[IronDanHamza]

On paper (and without knowing ANYTHING about him) yes...fighting Mayweather for a WORLD title means he'd beaten enough decent fighter's and having a 93% KO ratio obviously means he could crack. However, you'll probably say 'no' because he knocked out no ranked fighter's or faced none at all. Also, he fought Mayweather at Lightweight but started his career 2 weight divisions lower so he could've been a puncher in the lower weight classes but not at Lightweight.

Right, exactly. Thank you finally answering.

So you are here saying that Philip Ndou is a KO artist due to nothing more than KO ratio. Using no context what so ever.

There lies the literal exact problem with your logic and argument.

[HisExcellency]

Right, exactly. Thank you finally answering.

So you are here saying that Philip Ndou is a KO artist due to nothing more than KO ratio. Using no context what so ever.

There lies the literal exact problem with your logic and argument.

Lol NOPE...I said that he's probably beaten no ranked fighter's and might've only been a puncher in the lower weight classes but not at Lightweight. However, obviously he'd beaten enough DECENT fighter's to land a title shot in the first place and stopped nearly all of them. Not just ANYBODY gets to fight for a world title you know (especially against Mayweather who was a household name at that point)!

[IronDanHamza]

Lol NOPE...I said that he's probably beaten no ranked fighter's and might've only been a puncher in the lower weight classes but not at Lightweight. However, obviously he'd beaten enough DECENT fighter's to land a title shot in the first place and stopped nearly all of them. Not just ANYBODY gets to fight for a world title you know (especially against Mayweather who was a household name at that point)!

You literally just said yes to being asked if he was a KO artist.

Pretty sure Ndou had not beaten a single fighter that was ranked in the Top 20. He definitely fought no one in the Top 10 that is for sure.

Yet you've again just asserted, and assumed, that he "must have beaten enough decent fighters to land a title shot". OK name one then Name one decent fighter he beat.

Are you new to this Boxing thing? Why would you think that you'd have to fit that criteria to get a title shot? Floyd fought Ndou as a stay busy fight because he'd had some lack luster fights at 135, that's why he fought N'Dou. N'Dou far from deserved it at that time.

He had a nice 93% KO ratio, so that sold the fight despite the fact Ndou was unranked and not very good. But what does a 93% KO ratio mean when they're against entirely unranked fighters? Thus, again, THE POINT.

You can't just deem a fighter a "KO artist" off a KO ratio with no context. If that were the case I could make a day of listing "KO Artists". Context needs to be used and that's the exact reason why Thurman is FAR FROM a KO artist.

[HisExcellency]

You literally just said yes to being asked if he was a KO artist.

Pretty sure Ndou had not beaten a single fighter that was ranked in the Top 20. He definitely fought no one in the Top 10 that is for sure.

Yet you've again just asserted, and assumed, that he "must have beaten enough decent fighters to land a title shot". OK name one then Name one decent fighter he beat.

Are you new to this Boxing thing? Why would you think that you'd have to fit that criteria to get a title shot? Floyd fought Ndou as a stay busy fight because he'd had some lack luster fights at 135, that's why he fought N'Dou. N'Dou far from deserved it at that time.

He had a nice 93% KO ratio, so that sold the fight despite the fact Ndou was unranked and not very good. But what does a 93% KO ratio mean when they're against entirely unranked fighters? Thus, again, THE POINT.

You can't just deem a fighter a "KO artist" off a KO ratio with no context. If that were the case I could make a day of listing "KO Artists". Context needs to be used and that's the exact reason why Thurman is FAR FROM a KO artist.

This is going to be my FINAL message to you on this subject because it's getting annoying and we're going round and round in circles.

Re Ndou, I STARTED off by saying 'on PAPER and without knowing anything about him' he looks like a puncher based on his 93% KO ratio plus the fact that he challenged Mayweather for a world title. 99% of people on this forum would've said the same thing if they couldn't be BOTHERED to dig deeper either. However, I did caveat that by saying he probably faced no ranked fighter's and might've only been a puncher in the lower weight classes but not at Lightweight.

As for his title shot against Mayweather, even if he WASN'T the mandatory challenger for his belt, he still managed to last 7 rounds with him at a time where Floyd had a decent KO ratio (66%) plus Hernandez (who Mayweather defeated for his Super Featherweight world title - Ndou's natural weight class) only managed to last one round more. Therefore, Ndou could obviously fight and wasn't the complete scrub you're making him out to be which means he beat some decent fighter's along the way.

Anyway, NONE of this is relevant to the Thurman discussion because I clearly stated that Keith was a 2x WORLD champion who defended his belts many times (unlike Ndou) and fought ranked opposition.

In closing, if you seriously believe that a 2x WORLD champion who defended his belts several times and dropped or stopped 25 out of 30 opponents he defeated (83%) plus 3 of the 5 guys he failed to get out of there were only stopped ONCE in the final fight of their careers (and went the distance with MANY elite Welterweights too) WASN'T a puncher then you need serious help!

Goodbye!

[QueensburyRules]

Right, but Marquez has never been found to have a PED in his system.

- - Neither were the Olympic athletes nor Shane Mosely and BALCO Barry Bonds who were found on BALCO client lists. The Olympians served jail time because of Olympic Oversight of the event.

Mosely was never charged as near as I can tell, but Bonds was found guilty and forced to pay a fine and do a year in House Arrest because boxing his such poor oversight. So poor that Doc Goodman who managed to lose the Wlad bloodtest showing he was slipped a Mickey Finn in the Brewster fight where he suddenly collapsed in spite of dominating one of the easiest fights ever for him.

[IronDanHamza]

This is going to be my FINAL message to you on this subject because it's getting annoying and we're going round and round in circles.

Re Ndou, I STARTED off by saying 'on PAPER and without knowing anything about him' he looks like a puncher based on his 93% KO ratio plus the fact that he challenged Mayweather for a world title. 99% of people on this forum would've said the same thing if they couldn't be BOTHERED to dig deeper either. However, I did caveat that by saying he probably faced no ranked fighter's and might've only been a puncher in the lower weight classes but not at Lightweight.

As for his title shot against Mayweather, even if he WASN'T the mandatory challenger for his belt, he still managed to last 7 rounds with him at a time where Floyd had a decent KO ratio (66%) plus Hernandez (who Mayweather defeated for his Super Featherweight world title - Ndou's natural weight class) only managed to last one round more. Therefore, Ndou could obviously fight and wasn't the complete scrub you're making him out to be which means he beat some decent fighter's along the way.

Anyway, NONE of this is relevant to the Thurman discussion because I clearly stated that Keith was a 2x WORLD champion who defended his belts many times (unlike Ndou) and fought ranked opposition.

In closing, if you seriously believe that a 2x WORLD champion who defended his belts several times and dropped or stopped 25 out of 30 opponents he defeated (83%) plus 3 of the 5 guys he failed to get out of there were only stopped ONCE in the final fight of their careers (and went the distance with MANY elite Welterweights too) WASN'T a puncher then you need serious help!

Goodbye!

N'dou is not a good fighter at all, beat no ranked fighters and is definitely not a puncher despite his high KO %.

Which is literally the entire point.

Much like Thurman, who has a 0 KO% against ranked fighters, is not a KO artist.

Your using arguments that are irrelevant. He has a 0% KO ratio vs ranked fighters. It's as simple as that. Name any KO artist in history and you CANNOT say that about them because actual KO artists actually knock out ranked fighters, it's kind of a requirement to fit that description.

End of story.