What evidence do we have that heavyweights were too small in the past to compete today? and what determines a fighters size?

[Marchegiano]

My very first sentence.states why I made the threads
"They were designed to flush out those who insist Marciano could beat modern class heavyweights."

I'm not in the slightest bit embarrassed,just bemused that you refuse to give answers to my H 2 H matchups on 2 separate threads though you refer to them incessantly.

Jones weighed 193lbs when he won a version of the title from Ruiz.

Wilder weighed 219lbs when he won a version of the title from Stiverne.


Get it now you DUMB ****!

Its blatantly obvious why Apples made this thread.To boost Marciano's chances against modern sized heavies.He believes Marciano beats all of them and only Vitali survives to hear the final bell .


Where on this forum have I ,or anyone else said Wlad had better stamina than Marciano?

Where have I or anyone else said smaller men do NOT have a stamina advantage over bigger men?

What I HAVE said is a smaller man, pulling ,clinching and tugging against a man 60lbs heavier is likely to wear himself out before the bigger man does .
Are you sure you aren't Dr Z's brother?
He has reading comprehension issues too.lol

Now, do you think you could grow a pair and answer my question re the modern heavy matchups I named against Jones Jnr, and Marciano?

Or, are you going to keep fixatedly salivating on Marciano's stamina,I'm betting on the latter!

Okay, you did not explicitly say Wlad can have Marciano stamina. instead what you did was point out Wlad only tired, in your opinion, against Purrity. What you did not do is admit Marciano has a stamina advantage. After I said you'd not admit it. We're ****ing pages deep now ****. If you admit it now it's only because I sat here holding your goofy feet to the fire. Repeatedly jamming the same exact question and statement into the conversation and up to this point your ****** ass still has not explicitly said 185 does have a stamina advantage over 245.

All you've done is deflected like the idiot you are. Do you think you can possibly get so convoluted I can't just point out the **** you try to pull?


Still have not even attempted to explain TF Roy 193 has to do with Apples or Marciano but like to use "they" to refer to those threads. NO ONE is guessing why. We all know why.

Here's something else I know about you. You're too much of a **** to let **** go and tire most posters out with your ****itude. I don't need to follow your reframing to continue to call you a ******, old, coward who never did **** with their life and is so ****ing bias can't admit any weakness to your argument and so ****ing feminine you can't handle simply a ****ing loss.




What you got bro? Deys about Apples. Was Apples who answered RJJ to both yours and Z's tard ass gotcha questions was it? Was Apples who brought up 193 was it? FFS ***** you translucent. You'll say what you will to cover your ass, but that's just more evidence of what a ***** you are.

[Ivich]

Glucose,you have serious mental health issues.I think it best if I don't yank your chain anymore,fun is fun,but you are becoming apoplectic and I've no wish to be responsible for you imploding further.
Sit down take stock, have a cup of tea and reflect on how you have spent your last couple of days.Screaming and insulting everyone here, calling us all morons.

You are Captain Queeg, on the stand, juggling those little metal balls it's becoming beyond a joke and your demeanour is seriously disturbing to say the least. Time for you to chill before you have a stroke.

[Marchegiano]

Glucose,you have serious mental health issues.I think it best if I don't yank your chain anymore,fun is fun,but you are becoming apoplectic and I've no wish to be responsible for you imploding further.
Sit down take stock, have a cup of tea and reflect on how you have spent your last couple of days.Screaming and insulting everyone here, calling us all morons.

You are Captain Queeg, on the stand, juggling those little metal balls it's becoming beyond a joke and your demeanour is seriously disturbing to say the least. Time for you to chill before you have a stroke.

Cool, cool, so totally ducking the 193 some more? Neat.

I'll let that go.

Now you can explain to me how making a thread about the same exact thing you were talking to apples about here isn't reframing. How is "calling out" blah blah anything but an explanation for the reframe?


Couldn't care less what you think of me bud. I have real life accomplishments you can watch right now on absolutely any media you prefer. You're doing circles now. Personal posting, been over that, I don't care because you've never done anything with yourself bro.


Still no era given or cited where the smaller end of the division struggled.

You'll blame me for you taking 13 pages to admit smaller men have better stamina. How many more pages will it take for you to admit no such era can be found? Another 12? We gonna hit an even 25 before I actually get to make my GD point you ******, cowardly, cantankerous, old, dumbass, dumb, *******?


Answered all yer goofy ill-thought bull****. To the point where you ran off and made a new thread. Is it my fault you and Z together are so ****ing ****** neither of you asked anything that couldn't be answered with Roy? My fault is it?


Just like how it's my fault you can't admit no such era actually ever existed.


GhostofDempsey Hey bud, Glaukos is my username on a different forums. For next time he calls you a weird stalker type. ... dude's just got zero self-awareness at all.

[Ivich]

Cool, cool, so totally ducking the 193 some more? Neat.

I'll let that go.

Now you can explain to me how making a thread about the same exact thing you were talking to apples about here isn't reframing. How is "calling out" blah blah anything but an explanation for the reframe?


Couldn't care less what you think of me bud. I have real life accomplishments you can watch right now on absolutely any media you prefer. You're doing circles now. Personal posting, been over that, I don't care because you've never done anything with yourself bro.


Still no era given or cited where the smaller end of the division struggled.

You'll blame me for you taking 13 pages to admit smaller men have better stamina. How many more pages will it take for you to admit no such era can be found? Another 12? We gonna hit an even 25 before I actually get to make my GD point you ******, cowardly, cantankerous, old, dumbass, dumb, *******?


Answered all yer goofy ill-thought bull****. To the point where you ran off and made a new thread. Is it my fault you and Z together are so ****ing ****** neither of you asked anything that couldn't be answered with Roy? My fault is it?


Just like how it's my fault you can't admit no such era actually ever existed.


GhostofDempsey Hey bud, Glaukos is my username on a different forums. For next time he calls you a weird stalker type. ... dude's just got zero self-awareness at all.

The" smaller end of the division",your words,has struggled for the last 20 years.
2004-2024
DURING THAT TIME NOT A SINGLE FIGHTER WEIGHING UNDER 200LBS HAS BEEN TOP TEN RANKED IN THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION


WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU GLUCOSE?

I haven't admitted smaller men have better stamina.
What I pointed out to you was simply that neither I ,nor anyone else ,contested your statement that that was in fact the case!

What you have done is spent 13 pages rebutting an argument that nobody has made!
If that doesn't make you the dumbest **** who ever posted on here I don't know what will!

If you spent a fraction more of your posting time actually reading others posts, instead of being so busy praising and bigging yourself up,you might have realised that!

I've no wish to follow your lead and repeatedly congratulate myself, as you are unable to refrain from doing.

I'll just say this ;
I was successful enough at my job to be able to retire in comfort at 56.

That has suited me very well,I have had the luxury of spending my last 19 years doing exactly what I want, going where I want and helping my dependents whenever I have deemed it necessary to do so.

Now we are done ,mentally disturbed people like yourself can get very wearing after a while,its a pity you are a schizo but that is hardly anyone else's fault, least of all mine.
I'm neither your Bud or your Bro,I'm an average sort of guy, who is an average poster on this and other boxing forums,but I can spot a looney when one surfaces!

Have the last word if you wish , I won't be reading it.

[them_apples]

The" smaller end of the division",your words,has struggled for the last 20 years.
2004-2024
DURING THAT TIME NOT A SINGLE FIGHTER WEIGHING UNDER 200LBS HAS BEEN TOP TEN RANKED IN THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION


WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU GLUCOSE?

I haven't admitted smaller men have better stamina.
What I pointed out to you was simply that neither I ,nor anyone else ,contested your statement that that was in fact the case!

What you have done is spent 13 pages rebutting an argument that nobody has made!
If that doesn't make you the dumbest **** who ever posted on here I don't know what will!

If you spent a fraction more of your posting time actually reading others posts, instead of being so busy praising and bigging yourself up,you might have realised that!

I've no wish to follow your lead and repeatedly congratulate myself, as you are unable to refrain from doing.

I'll just say this ;
I was successful enough at my job to be able to retire in comfort at 56.

That has suited me very well,I have had the luxury of spending my last 19 years doing exactly what I want, going where I want and helping my dependents whenever I have deemed it necessary to do so.

Now we are done ,mentally disturbed people like yourself can get very wearing after a while,its a pity you are a schizo but that is hardly anyone else's fault, least of all mine.
I'm neither your Bud or your Bro,I'm an average sort of guy, who is an average poster on this and other boxing forums,but I can spot a looney when one surfaces!

Have the last word if you wish , I won't be reading it.

Because boxers bulk up now for no reason at all other thab they don’t know how to fight. The ability level has plummeted as well as knowledgeable trainers. There is no benefit to bulking up and never in the history of boxing has a fighter bulked up and performed better than their natural self. Literally NEVER. You said you boxed back in the day so in your experience why would you think bulking in a sport like boxing is a good idea? Boxing is really in a bad place. Look how terribly off balance Wilder is. Tight like a drum, weak legs and an over-muscled upper body. Fury, a milk bag with no strength and low power, and about 50 lbs overweight.

yes usyk bulked and looks like he went on peds, but he didn’t look better. His game plan was to box and move yet the guy bulks himself because trainers today literally don’t know **** all about boxing and don’t study old tapes like they used to. Its a joke.

[Ivich]

Because boxers bulk up now for no reason at all other thab they donât know how to fight. The ability level has plummeted as well as knowledgeable trainers. There is no benefit to bulking up and never in the history of boxing has a fighter bulked up and performed better than their natural self. Literally NEVER. You said you boxed back in the day so in your experience why would you think bulking in a sport like boxing is a good idea? Boxing is really in a bad place. Look how terribly off balance Wilder is. Tight like a drum, weak legs and an over-muscled upper body. Fury, a milk bag with no strength and low power, and about 50 lbs overweight.

yes usyk bulked and looks like he went on peds, but he didnât look better. His game plan was to box and move yet the guy bulks himself because trainers today literally donât know **** all about boxing and donât study old tapes like they used to. Its a joke.

So all smaller men, Lightheavies and Cruisers who have bulked up to compete at heavyweight,have only done so because they don't know how to fight .Ellis,Haye, Byrd,Jones, Holyfield ,and Usyk don't know how to fight?
Got those primary sources that prove Marciano did 30 rds on the 300lbs bag after his sparring sessions?
I'm looking forward to seeing them!

[Slugfester]

Sorry to be tardy. I have been sleeping a lot and watching a series to exhaustion. I knew I could come back to the donnybrook here anytime.

Margarine indeed made a good point--one of the few to be had, and pulled a prize fish out of a dead lake with the stamina/weight duality.

Forgive if it leads to my own question.

Does that mean bantamweights have more stamina than middleweights?

Well, yeah, methinks. On the whole BWs move around the ring more and faster than MWs. They are simply more active. What allows this? Their weight, no more no less. Smaller guys get better gas mileage.

[thebrownbomber_]

Anyone who has been following your Marciano posts will immediately see the agenda behind this thread.
However let's examine your examples.

Joshua 6'6" 240lbs v Usyk 6'3 "' 221 1/2lbs = 3 inches in height,19 1/2lbs in weight

Lewis 6'5 246 1/2lbs v Rahman 6'2 1/2" 236lbs=1 inch in height,10lbs in weight

Foreman 6'3" 229lbs v Young 6'2" 212lbs=1 inch in height,17lbs in weight

Vitali 6'7"244 1/2lbs v Byrd 6'2 " 210 3/4lbs Injury decided the fight. Small heavyweight? Byrd is the same size as Max Baer.

Lewis 6'5" 238 lbs v McCall 6'2" 231 1/4lbs = 3 inches in height 5 3.4lbs in weight

Valuev 7' 316lbs v Haye 6'3" 221lbs=9 inches in height 95lbs in weight

Anyone who is 200 plus pounds can beat a man significantly heavier and taller IF he is good enough

Carnera was a fighter built on setups and tank artists,a fighter who never punched his weight.

Valuev had nothing going for him but his size, no skills, no big punch,just durability,he came around at just the right time.

Holyfield 6'2" 217lbs beat Bowe 6'5" 246lbs ONCE out of 3 tries

Marciano 5'10" 185lbs v Joshua 6'6" 240lbs is totally different to,Joshua v Usyk .
AJ has 3 inches in height and 19 1/2lbs in weight advantage .
Against AJ Marciano would be conceding 7'1/2" inches in height 53lbs in weight and 14 inches in reach.

Marciano may beat big guys like Simon,Carnera, Willard, and Valuev,but he isn't beating a guy like AJ who is not only huge, but can box, and hit like a truck.

There are weight divisions for a reason!

Well marciano wasn’t really a true HW. Other great HWs like Louis, Liston, Ali, etx from before the 80s would easily starch AJ

[JAB5239]

Sorry to be tardy. I have been sleeping a lot and watching a series to exhaustion. I knew I could come back to the donnybrook here anytime.

Margarine indeed made a good point--one of the few to be had, and pulled a prize fish out of a dead lake with the stamina/weight duality.

Forgive if it leads to my own question.

Does that mean bantamweights have more stamina than middleweights?

Well, yeah, methinks. On the whole BWs move around the ring more and faster than MWs. They are simply more active. What allows this? Their weight, no more no less. Smaller guys get better gas mileage.

That's actually a great analogy. A Toyota Corolla will always get better gas mileage than a tractor trailer because it's smaller meaning it has to use less fuel. I generally stay out of these discussions because I don't know much about how the body burns fuel, but it makes sense the bigger you are the more fuel you have to use. In weight loss heavier people lose weight faster than a smaller person as well.

[Ivich]

Sorry to be tardy. I have been sleeping a lot and watching a series to exhaustion. I knew I could come back to the donnybrook here anytime.

Margarine indeed made a good point--one of the few to be had, and pulled a prize fish out of a dead lake with the stamina/weight duality.

Forgive if it leads to my own question.

Does that mean bantamweights have more stamina than middleweights?

Well, yeah, methinks. On the whole BWs move around the ring more and faster than MWs. They are simply more active. What allows this? Their weight, no more no less. Smaller guys get better gas mileage.

Nobody has disputed this ,though Margarino seems convinced that I have denied it!

Q. How many fighters smaller than him had more stamina than Harry Greb?


However what exactly it has to do with the subject and title of the thread which is;


What evidence do we have that heavyweights were too small in the past to compete today? and what determines a fighters size?

Escapes me .

The answer to the question posed by the original poster Apples is easily discerned;
No fighter under 200lbs has been top ten ranked at heavyweight in the last 20 years!

No fighter under 200lbs has challenged for that title in the last twenty years!