Analysis of Jack Johnsons style.

[Ivich]

71 to 74 degrees at fight time, but high humidity and overcast.

Prefight both fighters are bundled up to keep the heat in.

Havana newspaper said low 70s all day.

Contrast that to Ohio (Dempsey-Willard) where it actually was 100 degrees.

Pre-fight both fighters are stripped to the waste and there are umbrellas in the corner to keep the sun off them.

The Havana heat is an apocryphal story (and excuse) used by JJ.

JJ was the type of man who would rather say he took a dive than admit he got beaten.

Johnson did not mention the heat as an excuse,it was Willard who mentioned the temperature.
"It was hotter than hell in there.

" I was there about 5 years ago,I was changing.and showering 3 times a day ,and I was near the sea front, The Malecon. just strolling about.
The day after the fight Johnson went to collect his money from Jack Curley and said ,"I have no excuses to offer,he beat me fair and square.I didn't dream a man could survive against me if I really went after him" Johnson also said Willard knocked out his gold teeth with a left hook, but he swallowed them, rather than let the ringsiders see them on the canvas.
Sam McVey,Johnson's close friend and chief second ,stated Jack didn't really know where he was when he helped him on to his feet.
Seventy eight minutes of fighting,at the age of 37 and considerably overweight,Johnson was 37 years old and 225lbs,31 lbs more than he had scaled when he won the title from Burns,7 years earlier. In the lead at the time of the knockout against a giant,who was in the shape of his life.
I think he put up a marvellous performance!

The Referee's opinion of the Willard v Johnson fight.
"After the fight, referee Jack Welch said: "If I had been compelled to give a decision at the end of the twenty-fifth round, it would have been Johnson's by a wide margin. Up to the twentieth round, Willard had one won only one round by a real margin and two or three others by the slightest shade. In the thirteenth and fourteenth, I was almost sure Johnson would knock Willard out, but Willard showed that his jaw and body were too tough. Johnson put up a wonderful fight to the twentieth round, but age stepped in then and defeated him."
.

[Willie Pep 229]

Johnson did not mention the heat as an excuse,it was Willard who mentioned the temperature.
"It was hotter than hell in there.

" I was there about 5 years ago,I was changing.and showering 3 times a day ,and I was near the sea front, The Malecon. just strolling about.
The day after the fight Johnson went to collect his money from Jack Curley and said ,"I have no excuses to offer,he beat me fair and square.I didn't dream a man could survnoive against me if I really went after him" Johnson also said Willard knocked out his gold teeth with a left hook, but he swallowed them, rather than let the ringsiders see them on the canvas.
Sam McVey,Johnson's close friend and chief second ,stated Jack didn't really know where he was when he helped him on to his feet.
Seventy eight minutes of fighting,at the age of 37 and considerably overweight,Johnson was 37 years old and 225lbs,31 lbs more than he had scaled when he won the title from Burns,7 years earlier. In the lead at the time of the knockout against a giant,who was in the shape of his life.
I think he put up a marvellous performance!

The Referee's opinion of the Willard v Johnson fight.
"After the fight, referee Jack Welch said: "If I had been compelled to give a decision at the end of the twenty-fifth round, it would have been Johnson's by a wide margin. Up to the twentieth round, Willard had one won only one round by a real margin and two or three others by the slightest shade. In the thirteenth and fourteenth, I was almost sure Johnson would knock Willard out, but Willard showed that his jaw and body were too tough. Johnson put up a wonderful fight to the twentieth round, but age stepped in then and defeated him."
.

No. Because of the Sims Law the film was banned in the USA. But the law did not apply to still photos. The filmmakers clipped several frames from the film and distributed them as stills.

One frame caught JJ in mid fall with his arms slipping over his head and and knees still not flat on the canvas.

JJ used the still to spread the story that the clip proved he threw the fight because he was holding his arm to block the sun and kept his knees up off the canvas because it was blazing hot.

So began the 105 degree blazing sun story, courtesy of JJ in 1921. It was his go to story until 1940 when the full film became avaible and his lie was exposed.

[Willie Pep 229]

Johnson did not mention the heat as an excuse,it was Willard who mentioned the temperature.
"It was hotter than hell in there.

" I was there about 5 years ago,I was changing.and showering 3 times a day ,and I was near the sea front, The Malecon. just strolling about.
The day after the fight Johnson went to collect his money from Jack Curley and said ,"I have no excuses to offer,he beat me fair and square.I didn't dream a man could survive against me if I really went after him" Johnson also said Willard knocked out his gold teeth with a left hook, but he swallowed them, rather than let the ringsiders see them on the canvas.
Sam McVey,Johnson's close friend and chief second ,stated Jack didn't really know where he was when he helped him on to his feet.
Seventy eight minutes of fighting,at the age of 37 and considerably overweight,Johnson was 37 years old and 225lbs,31 lbs more than he had scaled when he won the title from Burns,7 years earlier. In the lead at the time of the knockout against a giant,who was in the shape of his life.
I think he put up a marvellous performance!

The Referee's opinion of the Willard v Johnson fight.
"After the fight, referee Jack Welch said: "If I had been compelled to give a decision at the end of the twenty-fifth round, it would have been Johnson's by a wide margin. Up to the twentieth round, Willard had one won only one round by a real margin and two or three others by the slightest shade. In the thirteenth and fourteenth, I was almost sure Johnson would knock Willard out, but Willard showed that his jaw and body were too tough. Johnson put up a wonderful fight to the twentieth round, but age stepped in then and defeated him."
.

I believe it was historian Arley Allen who wrote the most recent biography of Jess Willard.

It was Allen who debunked the 100 plus degree heat in Havana story and also the odd Jess Willard quote you reference.

He located the local newspapers from Cuba for that day and confirmed the actual temperature.

Furthermore he addressed the Willard quote by noting that Jess made those comments years after the fight and believed that Willard regularly confused the Havana fight with the Dempsey go in Ohio ('which was hotter than hell that day.')

Willard suffered from pugilist dementia. In the 1930s Dempsey tried to hire Willard as a spokesman for his new Jack Dempsey Bourbon. Willard was broke and asked Dempsey for help.

It took Willard all day to record three sentences for the advertisement.

Just two days later reporters overheard Willard bad mouthing Dempsey's liquor, calling it crap, Dempsey was forced to let him go after only two days.

Dempsey said, "He didn't stay with me long the first time either."

P.S. Alen concluded that Willard was a poor source for the Havana fight because he found in his research that Jess confused the Havana and Ohio fights on several occasions, not just on the heat.

[them_apples]

I believe it was historian Arley Allen who wrote the most recent biography of Jess Willard.

It was Allen who debunked the 100 plus degree heat in Havana story and also the odd Jess Willard quote you reference.

He located the local newspapers from Cuba for that day and confirmed the actual temperature.

Furthermore he addressed the Willard quote by noting that Jess made those comments years after the fight and believed that Willard regularly confused the Havana fight with the Dempsey go in Ohio ('which was hotter than hell that day.')

Willard suffered from pugilist dementia. In the 1930s Dempsey tried to hire Willard as a spokesman for his new Jack Dempsey Bourbon. Willard was broke and asked Dempsey for help.

It took Willard all day to record three sentences for the advertisement.

Just two days later reporters overheard Willard bad mouthing Dempsey's liquor, calling it crap, Dempsey was forced to let him go after only two days.

Dempsey said, "He didn't stay with me long the first time either."

P.S. Alen concluded that Willard was a poor source for the Havana fight because he found in his research that Jess confused the Havana and Ohio fights on several occasions, not just on the heat.

Couldn’t you say he may have received brain damage then and there causing him to be this way. And the fact that dempsey put dents in his head. Keep in mind there were rumors jack had loaded gloves too. It’s so long ago well never know, but Jack from my reading seems like he was protected more so than most and maybe would do something like that.

[Ivich]

I believe it was historian Arley Allen who wrote the most recent biography of Jess Willard.

It was Allen who debunked the 100 plus degree heat in Havana story and also the odd Jess Willard quote you reference.

He located the local newspapers from Cuba for that day and confirmed the actual temperature.

Furthermore he addressed the Willard quote by noting that Jess made those comments years after the fight and believed that Willard regularly confused the Havana fight with the Dempsey go in Ohio ('which was hotter than hell that day.')

Willard suffered from pugilist dementia. In the 1930s Dempsey tried to hire Willard as a spokesman for his new Jack Dempsey Bourbon. Willard was broke and asked Dempsey for help.

It took Willard all day to record three sentences for the advertisement.

Just two days later reporters overheard Willard bad mouthing Dempsey's liquor, calling it crap, Dempsey was forced to let him go after only two days.

Dempsey said, "He didn't stay with me long the first time either."

P.S. Alen concluded that Willard was a poor source for the Havana fight because he found in his research that Jess confused the Havana and Ohio fights on several occasions, not just on the heat.

The referee made his comments the next day, was he suffering from pugilistica dementia too?
Thank you for the info I've never heard of Arley Allen.
Neither have I ever read a quote by Johnson blaming his defeat on the weather.He was legitimately ko'd ,later, down on his luck he sold a"confession" to Nat Fleischer,for a couple of hundred bucks.Fleischer didn't believe it and didn't publish it.

Having been in Havana in April I think I'm qualified to speak on the weather?

I never took temperature readings ,but I can assure you the humidity is something else. Mid day people sit in the national park . fanning themselves.

[Willie Pep 229]

Couldnât you say he may have received brain damage then and there causing him to be this way. And the fact that dempsey put dents in his head. Keep in mind there were rumors jack had loaded gloves too. Itâs so long ago well never know, but Jack from my reading seems like he was protected more so than most and maybe would do something like that.

Actually I think he was made damage goods by JJ. A one round beating is bad, but shot after shot to the head for 25 rounds tears up many brain cells.

[Willie Pep 229]

The referee made his comments the next day, was he suffering from pugilistica dementia too?
Thank you for the info I've never heard of Arley Allen.
Neither have I ever read a quote by Johnson blaming his defeat on the weather.He was legitimately ko'd ,later, down on his luck he sold a"confession" to Nat Fleischer,for a couple of hundred bucks.Fleischer didn't believe it and didn't publish it.

Having been in Havana in April I think I'm qualified to speak on the weather?

I never took temperature readings ,but I can assure you the humidity is something else. Mid day people sit in the national park . fanning themselves.

An out of shape ref doesn't count. You being in Cuba as a tourist doesn't count. Many have printed the 'arm blocking the sun, knees off the canvas' story. It was the conventual wisdom for decades asvwas the silly 100 degree heat lie.

P.S. I live in Miami.

[Ivich]

An out of shape ref doesn't count. You being in Cuba as a tourist doesn't count. Many have printed the 'arm blocking the sun, knees off the canvas' story. It was the conventual wisdom for decades asvwas the silly 100 degree heat lie.

P.S. I live in Miami.

I'm not talking about the ref's physical condition I'm talking about his scoring of the fight. I never mentioned the knees off the canvas crap, and I've already stated it was an authentic ko. You said Johnson used the heat as an excuse,can you provide a source for this please?

[billeau2]

How did his style not work out?
He went 6 rounds with O Brien to a no decision. Jim Jeffries said O Brien could make anyone look bad over 6 rounds

He went 10rds with Jim Johnson to a draw fighting under the handicap of a broken arm.

He went 26 rds with Willard at the age of 37 and was in front when he gassed out.

Burns and Gardner were good mobile boxers.

Moran
Kaufman
McVey
Jeannette
Were not small men.
Haters like you regurgitate the same BS over and over,I wonder you don't get as tired of it as the rest of us do!

My good friend Z is going to inform me of how the stiff Croat is a front runner.

[Willie Pep 229]

I'm not talking about the ref's physical condition I'm talking about his scoring of the fight. I never mentioned the knees off the canvas crap, and I've already stated it was an authentic ko. You said Johnson used the heat as an excuse,can you provide a source for this please?

Na! I play that no more. I shared, you disputed. It ends there. This ain't important enough to get bunched up over.