Muhammad Ali. How great was he?

[QueensburyRules]

Frazier was offered 4 million for a rematch with Ali after FOTC,he turned it down and defended against Foreman for $800,00.

I must remember, if I want the inside info on boxing ,read Playboy magazine! lol

- - Has nothing to do with Ali ducking the Foreman rematch.

Frazier defended vs Daniels and Stander before Foreman where he got a load full of $$$. Ali had already been beat up by Norton.

[Dr. Z]

- - Has nothing to do with Ali ducking the Foreman rematch.

Frazier defended vs Daniels and Stander before Foreman where he got a load full of $$$. Ali had already been beat up by Norton.

Right and neither man was ranked.

[Ivich]

- - Has nothing to do with Ali ducking the Foreman rematch.

Frazier defended vs Daniels and Stander before Foreman where he got a load full of $$$. Ali had already been beat up by Norton.

Frazier got $800,000 for defending against Foreman,having turned down 4 million to fight Ali.
He pocketed a mere $250,000 to fight journeyman Terry Daniels.
You talk nonsense!

[Ivich]

You have to be kidding me. T. Teofilo Stevenson for one. For two and three how about the guys he was up against in 1978! I provided the film

You do know Jeffries KO'd men in England, don't you?

I have offers for Johnson in several nations USA, UK, Australia and France. He dint not face ANY of then from 1908-1920.

You are a sad joke. Here's the first of Johnson's make ducks.



Black Champion Proves He Tampers With The Truth.

His Agreement to Box Before the National Sporting Club of London Was Signed with His Own Hand.

He Tried to Shift the Responsibility to Others.
World Produces Photograph of His Signed Letter - Opinion of Secretary of Club.

By William P. McLoughlin

Very few persons who have followed the course of Mistah Jack Johnson since he won the heavyweight championship of the world by walloping little Tommy Burns need to be told of the absolute indifference of the big negro to either truth or candor. Those, however, who like the man from Missouri, must "be shown" before they will believe and derive the most convincing proof of Johnson's dishonorable character from the letter which I print in this column and the photographic facsimile which accompanied that letter from London.

It will be remembered that the moment Johnson was proclaimed heavyweight champion he began to suffer from what a facetious friend of mine would call "elephantiasis of the cranium," but which the erudite Kid Griffo describes as the "swelled cocoa."

Dropped His Friends Overboard:

Johnson as soon as he gained the title, had no further use for the men who had stood by him when he was hustling after a snack of pork and chicken. Sam Fitzpatrick, who went broke and kept on borrowing from his friends to grub stake Johnson in the vague hope of getting it back when he would succeed in working the negro into the championship class, was cast aside. Johnson gave no earthly reason for this act of gross ingratitude. Fitzpatrick the faithful had to beat it back to San Francisco from Australia with all his pockets turned inside out, while the slugger he befriended arrived with bulging pocketbook and a bushel of resin unerative contracts.

More offers were made here. The negro promptly began to sidestep those to which he was already bound so as to hitch up with newer and more ******* ones. Right and left he disregarded his moral as well as literal obligations. So far did he go in this direction that in order to allay in some measure the popular indignation he began to worse than romance. He liked like the lamented Joe Mulhatton or Tom Ochiltree. He was worse than a gas meter. He blamed this, that or the other person for having signed contracts for him of which he knew nothing whatsoever.

When he threw over his agreement to box Sam Langford before the National Sporting Club in London, he declared that he had never agreed to any such proposition.

The Proof of It Is Here:

I am enabled today to present a damming proof of the four-flushing negro's duplicity and bad faith. The photograph (next column) shows Johnson's own letter to the club, signed by himself, in which he makes the offer to meet Langford. The camera does not lie.

Following is a letter from Mr. Bettinson, secretary of the National Sporting Club, which I received today:

National Sporting Club, Ltd.,
Covent Garden, W.C.
April 23, 1909

Dear Sir - I cabled you the other day that Johnson's statements were untrue, in consequence of several American newspaper cuttings I had received, in which he stated he repudiated Fitzpatrick's contracts, as if he had not any knowledge of what had been done.

Of course you will see by the enclosed photograph, that Johnson was absolutely personally responsible. In fact, the suggestion to box Langford for the same purse, win or lose, with Burns, came from him; and at the time, I thought it very decent of him to make the offer. The club did not ask him to do so, and I am quite certain we should always have been willing to have made a bigger offer, in the event of a victory over Burns. However, he is a ******, and a very bad type of one; and, as far as the club is concerned, we do not wish to bother about him, but when I see him making lying statements in the American Papers, I think it only right that I should repudiate them.

I think Johnson is throwing away the substance for the shadow, as he had 6,000 pounds worth of contracts booked up in London for six months of easy work. Of course, he may get more money in American, but I think this is pretty good booking for a black man.

I am pleased to say, we have got a good English champion. He is a big fellow, fourteen stone, and can really box well. He knocked out Moir in 2 min. 47 sec. on Monday evening last, and could do it at any time when called upon. Personally, I think he would have a great chance with Tommy Burns. How he will fare with Langford, I do not know, but he is very confident that no twelve-stone man can beat him. As a matter of fact he has seen Johnson, and think he could beat him. Still, we must wait to see how he goes with Langford before saying too much.

Sincerely yours,

A.F. Bettinson

No wonder Johnson is hissed and hooted at his every appearance on the stage here. Lovers of boxing the world over are naturally lovers of fair play. There is no other game which is so keenly sensitive to the touch of dishonor, and when there comes along a faker he generally reaps the reward for which he has sown the seen.

Langford is little better than Johnson. He has tricked and "pulled" and faked in the ring whenever it suited the purpose of his backers. He has hopped aside when Johnson almost caught with the goods on him.

I should like to see the two of 'em inside the ropes, and I'd like very much to see them wind up like the snake who got his tail in his mouth and swallowed himself holds bolus. I'd send a couple of wreath

OFFERS OF $30,000 UP TO $100,000 !THATS WHAT YOU STATED HE WAS OFFERED.
YOU HAVE OFFERS?
PRODUCE THEM WITH THE NAMES OF THE PROMOTERS,THE VENUES ,THE DATES AND THE PURSES!

Once he was Champion Johnson refused to fight Langford in London for $6000,that was the only fight he had agreed to and there were no further fights arranged for him in the UK.

Note that the $6000 purse was to be divided $4000 to the winner ,$2000 to the loser.Johnson signed this contract in1908,BEFOREhe won the title,once champion he declared he wanted the same amount to defend his title as Tommy Burns had received to defend against him ie $30,000.

Peggy Bettinson, the Secretary of the NSC was a racist, notorious for offering paltry purses to fighters.

After Johnson told him to jog on Bettinson later banned black fighters from contesting for British National titles ,this nefarious practice continued for many years.1911 -1948

The British Home Secretary banned a proposed title defence by Johnson against Bombadier Billy Wells in1911 on the grounds that it was not conducive to public order in the British colonies.

Jeffries did not ko anyone in the UK , as I said earlier I have a list of his exhibitions .

I asked you to name ONE BOXER he ko'd in the UK,I'm asking again and I know the result will be the same as my request from you for CONCRETE OFFERS OF FROM $30,000 TO $100,000 FOR JOHNSON TO DEFEND AGAINST McVEY,JEANNETTE,AND LANGFORD,THAT JOHNSON REFUSED.
DUCK DUCK DUCK DUCK DUCK . DR DUCK

How exactly could Ali a professional fight Stevenson an amateur?

Still ,"knitting with only one needle." DR DUCK?

[mrbig1]

Ali fought everybody and anybody his whole career. Never ducked anyone ever. No other fighter in boxing history fought all over the world. Often times in the others guy backyard. People were not born yet have no idea what they are talking about. I don't like name calling to get my point across. Just the facts.

[Dr. Z]

OFFERS OF $30,000 UP TO $100,000 !THATS WHAT YOU STATED HE WAS OFFERED.
YOU HAVE OFFERS?
PRODUCE THEM WITH THE NAMES OF THE PROMOTERS,THE VENUES ,THE DATES AND THE PURSES!

Once he was Champion Johnson refused to fight Langford in London for $6000,that was the only fight he had agreed to and there were no further fights arranged for him in the UK.

Note that the $6000 purse was to be divided $4000 to the winner ,$2000 to the loser.Johnson signed this contract in1908,BEFOREhe won the title,once champion he declared he wanted the same amount to defend his title as Tommy Burns had received to defend against him ie $30,000.

Peggy Bettinson, the Secretary of the NSC was a racist, notorious for offering paltry purses to fighters.

After Johnson told him to jog on Bettinson later banned black fighters from contesting for British National titles ,this nefarious practice continued for many years.1911 -1948

The British Home Secretary banned a proposed title defence by Johnson against Bombadier Billy Wells in1911 on the grounds that it was not conducive to public order in the British colonies.

Jeffries did not ko anyone in the UK , as I said earlier I have a list of his exhibitions .

I asked you to name ONE BOXER he ko'd in the UK,I'm asking again and I know the result will be the same as my request from you for CONCRETE OFFERS OF FROM $30,000 TO $100,000 FOR JOHNSON TO DEFEND AGAINST McVEY,JEANNETTE,AND LANGFORD,THAT JOHNSON REFUSED.
DUCK DUCK DUCK DUCK DUCK . DR DUCK

How exactly could Ali a professional fight Stevenson an amateur?

Still ,"knitting with only one needle." DR DUCK?

AND when I show you the press offers form 30 -100k , what will you do then? How much further will you move the goal posts?

You are boring, we have been over this before.

Be gone!

[QueensburyRules]

Frazier got $800,000 for defending against Foreman,having turned down 4 million to fight Ali.
He pocketed a mere $250,000 to fight journeyman Terry Daniels.
You talk nonsense!

- - When was Ali worth 4 mil after Joe?

He weren't. He fighting for chump change, and why would Joe want to give him a payday after he tanked their first fight.

Stoopid?

[Ivich]

- - When was Ali worth 4 mil after Joe?

He weren't. He fighting for chump change, and why would Joe want to give him a payday after he tanked their first fight.

Stoopid?

Frazier was offered $ 4million for the rematch and turned it down.This is in the public domain.

[Ivich]

AND when I show you the press offers form 30 -100k , what will you do then? How much further will you move the goal posts?

You are boring, we have been over this before.

Be gone!

When you show me the confirmed offers of between $30,000 and $100,000 it will be a first!

I have been asking for them for over a dozen years!

Produce them! Just think how you will be perceived,as being the FIRST to do so!

You have a golden opportunity to.;

PROVE YOUR METTLE ONCE AND FOR ALL!

YOU WON'T AND WE BOTH KNOW IT!

AND,MORE IMPORTANTLY NOW, SO DOES EVERYONE ON HERE!!!!!!

[Willie Pep 229]

What I have been able to find is a New York Times article, May 3rd 1972.

Mostly an interview with Bob Arum.

Arum says that both fighters want a five million dollar guarantee (twice the guarantee from '71) and a percentage. Arum then says that the numbers are realistic because he believes the fight will gross $30 million (TFOC had grossed only $20 million, but Arum blamed poor close circuit logistics and that the problem would be solved.)

Arum also states that both fighters had agreed to parity for both the FOTC and for any rematch that might occur. So Frazier would not recieved more than Ali in guarantee or percentage.

The article also says that Jack Kent Cooke (owner of the Los Angeles Lakers) owns the rematch rights because he financed $4.5 million of the five million guarantee for the first fight (FOTC).