Muhammad Ali. How great was he?

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Dr. Z;n32102281]



Your hero, Pollack list Murore's known record. Surely Munore has more fights than he lists. Pollack would agree with me on this. But he is banned here.

You were corrected multiple times in this thread with the ages. Time for one more. Money. They fight for the prize money. Jeffreis made a lot more vs. Fitz and Corbett than he would have vs. Martin ( and Ruhlin ) who if you do some research by looking at the CBZ it was reported that Jeffries KO'd Martin. Besides, anyone can make an offer for their fighter to make news. There was no secured purse fomr this unknown guy. Who was he again? Exactly.

Jeffries risked his lineal title vs. Hank Griffin in 1901. And he was black. Remember him. The same man beat Jack Johnson around the timeline.

And when the purse was right returned to risk his lineal title v.s Johnson as an old, in-active ( 6 years out of the ring) So much for what he said. You will find what was said and what is offered can change with money and in Jeffries case did. These quotes are at best time based.

No more shall I reply to you in this thread ( save you lies and false information ) as your intention is to have this thread locked. You have been flagged by me.

Munore ? .Murore;?
How much did Jeffries,[not Jeffreis,] make against Munroe and Finnegan?

Not as much as he would have made against Martin,McVey ,or Johnson!

Jeffries was disgusted with his purse for defending against the no hoper Munroe,that's why he retired!

Jeffries never fought Martin.and CBZ does not imply he ever did!

Neither did he ever risk his title against a black man, the Griffin affair was a 4 round exhibition,you cannot lose your title in an exhibition
Sep 17 Hank Griffin Los Angeles, Ca EX 4CBZ
Jeffries was not champion when he fought Johnson, he was defending NOTHING.

Now run away Dr Duck, it's what you are known for,lol

[YGriffith]

He fought literally everyone there was to fight, same cant be said about alot of other boxers. Not his fault 2/3 best boxing regions were communists.

In terms of overall accomplishments, quality of opponents and quality wins compared to losses, i rank him second greatest heavyweight behind Lennox Lewis, because unlike Ali, he had a much tougher and stacked era with more gifted, skilled bigger stronger heavyweights from all corners of the world.

In terms of who he can beat, i dont think he'd have much succes in the following eras at heavyweight.

[GhostofDempsey]

I don’t consider him the greatest. I always felt he was overrated in the sense that he received far too much worship as the greatest while being technically flawed, getting a few gift decisions and fixes in his favor and often fighting below his level. That said, he fought everyone there was to fight, and his popularity helped to resurrect the sport from a slump. I consider him an ATG, but certainly not “The Greatest”.

[Slugfester]

I don't see him losing to anyone who came after him with the possible exception of Lewis. I don't see him losing to anyone that came before him either. He will certainly walk through anyone named Fury or Klitscho, a lucky punch from Wilder being the only concern. The heavyweight who walked through Williams would not have a great deal of trouble
with today's. He beat most of the guys he did while past peak. I chose Williams because he was during Ali's peak.

I would ask Ghost On Dempsey who in hell was the greatest heavyweight, if not Ali/Clay? I can't wait for the answer.

https://www.quora.com/

[Ivich]

I don’t consider him the greatest. I always felt he was overrated in the sense that he received far too much worship as the greatest while being technically flawed, getting a few gift decisions and fixes in his favor and often fighting below his level. That said, he fought everyone there was to fight, and his popularity helped to resurrect the sport from a slump. I consider him an ATG, but certainly not “The Greatest”.

He was certainly technically flawed,not an inside fighter,and almost exclusively a head hunter.he did many things wrong, pulled back from punches instead of slipping them,threw jabs with his right hand out of position to deflect the counter,always vulnerable to the left hook. However, how many men would you ,or anyone else pick over him in a head to head? Your man,[and mine]William Harrison Dempsey would give him an interesting nights work ,imo.
Louis, Lewis,Holmes and some of the better modern sized heavies would too,but how many would we bet on to actually beat a prime Ali?
A prime we never actually saw.
He may have been the beneficiary of a couple of decisions,that is debatable,personally I don't think Young deserved the verdict against him,and the Norton fights were too close to call them robberies.

[The Defecator]

Ah! So THAT’S Dr. Z’s game: He’s an ethno-stan who knob slobbers Eastern Euros. Now I know not to take any post by him seriously and can simply dismiss them out of hand as having no value.

[Eff Pandas]

I mean obviously Ali was a bad mfer & is gonna be in any talk about great HW's or even great boxers, but I feel like he gets an extra bump, either consciously or unconsciously, due to his social ability & impact he had out of the ring. So he always feels a lil overrated to me. But **** measuring greatness always seems like an odd task that is impossible to do in any meaningful way. Different times are different times. You can only be among the best of your time.

[Dr. Z]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32102291]

Your hero, Pollack list Murore's known record. Surely Munore has more fights than he lists. Pollack would agree with me on this. But he is banned here.

You were corrected multiple times in this thread with the ages. Time for one more. Money. They fight for the prize money. Jeffreis made a lot more vs. Fitz and Corbett than he would have vs. Martin ( and Ruhlin ) who if you do some research by looking at the CBZ it was reported that Jeffries KO'd Martin. Besides, anyone can make an offer for their fighter to make news. There was no secured purse fomr this unknown guy. Who was he again? Exactly.

Jeffries risked his lineal title vs. Hank Griffin in 1901. And he was black. Remember him. The same man beat Jack Johnson around the timeline.

And when the purse was right returned to risk his lineal title v.s Johnson as an old, in-active ( 6 years out of the ring) So much for what he said. You will find what was said and what is offered can change with money and in Jeffries case did. These quotes are at best time based.

No more shall I reply to you in this thread ( save you lies and false information ) as your intention is to have this thread locked. You have been flagged by me.

Munore ? .Murore;?
How much did Jeffries,[not Jeffreis,] make against Munroe and Finnegan?

Not as much as he would have made against Martin,McVey ,or Johnson!

Jeffries was disgusted with his purse for defending against the no hoper Munroe,that's why he retired!

Jeffries never fought Martin.and CBZ does not imply he ever did!

Neither did he ever risk his title against a black man, the Griffin affair was a 4 round exhibition,you cannot lose your title in an exhibition
Sep 17 Hank Griffin Los Angeles, Ca EX 4CBZ
Jeffries was not champion when he fought Johnson, he was defending NOTHING.

Now run away Dr Duck, it's what you are known for,lol

Um yes the CBZ correct reports a match vs. Jeffries vs. Martin. It is reported by the press.

Reported But Not Confirmed
Frank Childs KO
Cotton KO
Denver" Ed Martin KO

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jeffries.htm


Let me get this correct, Jeffries should have fought Mcvey instead of Finnegan? How was old was McVey in 1900. 16 to 17 years old..

And Jeffries did in fact offer Johnson a private fight which Johnson refused! I think that happened in 1902-1903

There was no demand to him to fight Hart the #1 contender in 1905 after he beat Johnson. The money is the fight game dried up at the time, so Jeffries retried young. What's next he ducked Hart because he you think he was black?

PS: Jeffries was lineal champion he beat Griffin and if Griffin had somehow knocked him out, he's the next lineal champion.

- No charge you ignorant hater.

[Dr. Z]

He fought literally everyone there was to fight, same cant be said about alot of other boxers. Not his fault 2/3 best boxing regions were communists.

In terms of overall accomplishments, quality of opponents and quality wins compared to losses, i rank him second greatest heavyweight behind Lennox Lewis, because unlike Ali, he had a much tougher and stacked era with more gifted, skilled bigger stronger heavyweights from all corners of the world.

In terms of who he can beat, i dont think he'd have much succes in the following eras at heavyweight.

Right, call it the Red line. Or in Lewis' case the black English line. Lines Ali did not cross. Facts are facts, and Ali should have lost officially 7 times. Sometimes to clearly lesser men. Ali would have been defeated at least one more time he fought them all. The fighters ( the communists or the black english ) are on top of boxing now and may very well have been champions in the 1970's

[Ivich]

ah! So that’s dr. Z’s game: He’s an ethno-stan who knob slobbers eastern euros. Now i know not to take any post by him seriously and can simply dismiss them out of hand as having no value.

knob slobbers! Lol